First review of HD2900XT

[Tiberio]

Hi guys,
first review is up for this card that should be out monday.
Check review here (http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=834).
I for once can't wait, with a price of around 250£, 2-3 games (depends on make) and HD stuff I want one.

[YegaDoyai]

*Waits for a review he can trust*

With quotes like


The advantage is greatest at a resolution of 1,024x768, which suggests that the less detail you want to stack on, the better this card will prove.


You get the impression that they are just trying to suck ATi dick.

Edit:
I didn't even look at the review before posting this but was entirely justified in my disdain for this review.

[Hex]

That is one of the briefest Graphics Card reviews I have ever seen. No benchmarks, no real testing, not even close to in-depth - I'd be surprised if they actually used the card as opposed to reading the tech specs from the Sapphire website. I'll wait for the likes of bit-tech and tomshardware to run reviews before I start jacking myself off over this one tbh...

[Sid]

All they've done, pretty much, is quoted the specifications :S

The haven't shown any details of the testing.

Edit: Daily Tech (http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Radeon+HD+2900+XTX+Doomed+from+the+Start/article7052.htm) has some figures, but I don't trust them.

[Tiberio]

Second review/benchmark up, this time from IT-Review, click here (http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1325&Itemid=91).

[Hex]

Second review/benchmark up, this time from IT-Review, click here (http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1325&Itemid=91).

That review has been concluded to be absolute shite here (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=2045033)(Anandtech forums). We really need to wait for a mainstream reputable site to run a review before we can conclude anything about this range of cards.


Daily Tech (http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Radeon+HD+2900+XTX+Doomed+from+the+Start/article7052.htm) has some figures, but I don't trust them.

Pretty dodgy how they're comparing the XT to an 8800 GTX - the XT is slated to cost ~£250 Whereas the GTX is at least 300 if not more. XTX vs GTX would be a fair comparison, but I'm far more interested in XT vs GTS. Also I agree, I don't trust the figures.

[YegaDoyai]

Sorry Tib, not trusting that either.

Although the two reports conflict, one thing can be drawn from these articles:

It is good to know who backs the websites.

[Hex]

Sorry Tib, not trusting that either.

Although the two reports conflict, one thing can be drawn from these articles:

It is good to know who backs the websites.

This is a very good point, we should probably place a sticky in the hardware forum listing review websites along with information on who backs them and hence their trustworthiness. Where can you find out who backs a website?

EDIT: I lol'd at this (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_2900_XT/1) ^^

EDIT2: Strangely Dailytech actually have two sets of figures - The XTX Doomed (http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Radeon+HD+2900+XTX+Doomed+from+the+Start/article7052.htm) set that Sid posted, and this comparison of the XT and the GTS (http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Radeon+HD+2900+XT+Performance+Benchmarks/article7043.htm). The second set shows the XT edging out over the GTS. As with all the above, take with a pinch of salt.

[YegaDoyai]

More often than not you have to wait until they are exposed, but you can occasionally tell because they always get exclusives from certian manufacturers or just blatantly lie about products.

Toms and anandtech are long established and both are neutral in thier acceptance of kickbacks, take any review with a pinch of salt because as has been mentioned on both sites at the end of the day they don't get to review products if the company feels they have been treated unfairly.

Anyway there was a press NDA until that is lifted (the 14th) I'm not trusting anything.

The main thing to remember is that the ATi card was designed t be released for DX10 products, and it's architechture is better suited to thier application use. It's DX9 performance may not be mindblowing but it has it in reserve (in theory) for DX10. Watch this space.

[Tiberio]

Arghh, there is no pleasing you people :P
I shall scour the internet for reviews untill monday, untill then, have a look at some pretty photos (http://www.hardspain.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=62&Itemid=2).
Can't wait for that rubbish NDA to be lifted, I need to know whether or not this 6months of waiting has paid off:).

[Hex]

The main thing to remember is that the ATi card was designed t be released for DX10 products, and it's architechture is better suited to thier application use. It's DX9 performance may not be mindblowing but it has it in reserve (in theory) for DX10. Watch this space.

Currently the list of DX10 games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_10_support) is hardly massive, and we'll be waiting a fair few more months til any of them hit shelves. We'll just have to wait and see I guess

[Tiberio]

Pics for those who can't be bothered clicking.
Supposedly this is what we get in the HIS package.

[Thanatos]

lol on that DX10 list, UT3's release date is 'When its done'

[Hex]

Any word yet on bundled games with this thing? That picture appears to show a voucher for a free copy of the Black Box (Episode 2, Portal, TF2) which would certainly be a sweetener! So far the only game bundles I've seen for the 8800 include Ghost Recon Advance Warfighter (which would also be nice, and has the advantage of being available now, as opposed to at christmas).

[Tiberio]

With any version of the HD2900XT you get a free copy of the black box (ie. TFC2, Portal and Eps.2).
You get a password or sumthing which you then register with Steam to get the games for free.
With the Asus version you get Stalker, don't know what you get with either the HIS or Sapphire versions of the card but it is widely believed that it will be some new game on top of the black box.

[Tiberio]

The Asus Card.

[Hex]

Well if I can get Stalker, the Black Box and a card that is significantly better than the 8800GTS for £250, then I'm interested! We'll just have to see how the card performs in the reviews on Monday.

Ooh you've done it, I'm excited now :D

[Tiberio]

The MSI card, including a reference shot of the X2900XT next to a 8800GTX.

[Tiberio]

And lastly the Sapphire card, i'll stop now:P

[YegaDoyai]

You will have to wait for the NDA because noone reputable is going to speak before then.

[Hex]

You will have to wait for the NDA because noone reputable is going to speak before then.

Unless I'm much mistaken, I'm sure I read somewhere that the NDA is up on the 14th - thats Monday.

[Tiberio]

Yep, NDA is up on monday, ordering the card the moment it becomes available on OcUK, most likely around 2pm, leaving a few hours before that for the reviews.

[Hex]

Yep, NDA is up on monday, ordering the card the moment it becomes available on OcUK, most likely around 2pm, leaving a few hours before that for the reviews.

Jeezo, I hope the reviews are good or you are gonna have a baddddddddd day!

[Tiberio]

Don't even say that Hex, hehe.
Judging by the leaked benchmarks etc. I think the card will be quite good, no GTX killer but still good.
Like Yega said, we should wait for official reviews, although I suspect they will confirm most of the stuff that's already been mentioned.

[Tiberio]

Some more benches of the HD2900XT running under Vista, click here (http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33890816).
Apparently this guy managed to get a card 2 days before launch, hmmm...

[Hex]

Apparently the card is already for sale here (http://www.case-mod.com/his-digital-ati-radeon-r600xt-hd-2900xt-512mb-gddr3-vivo-pcie-video-card-p-2534.html) (US link). A lot of the stories about these cards are to do with HIS manufactured ones, seems like they've jumped the gun and released cards onto the market before the NDA is up. Surely they should be in the shit for this?

[CaNNoN_FoDDa]

Unless I'm much mistaken, I'm sure I read somewhere that the NDA is up on the 14th - thats Monday.

That would be here:

Anyway there was a press NDA until that is lifted (the 14th) I'm not trusting anything.

[Tiberio]

I'd suspect that HIS would in no way allow their cards to be sold ahead of the NDA being lifted as AMD would probably never allow them to produce anything for them ever again.
I guess the site just started selling them, OcUK has confirmed that they actually have the stock avaliable, they are just waiting for the NDA to be lifted.
Both HIS an Sapphire had their respective sites on the 2900XT leaked and then removed so i'd argue that one individual just messed up.
Only 2 days to go, then we will know for sure.

[YegaDoyai]

If you think HIS et all deliver thier cards on the 14th to suppliers you are a bunch of muppets, the stock will have been on the shelves for a couple of days, maybe even a week to ensure the shop has stock for prompt delivery for orders on teh 14th. Selling early is entirely the shops fault and it would be likely that they will not get favourable deals in the future, if any.

Good luck Tib, the card will be sweet as I just hope that some DX10 games come out soon so you can use its potential. IQ should be better than nVidia opponent if nothing else.

[Tiberio]

VR-zone has a review up, but site is down now, guess AMD got angry! :P
Anyway, here is an alternative link (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.marley/index.htm), looks like drivers are not as mature as they should be by now, although it has been reported that some cards shipped with 8.36 drivers and some are already on 8.40! what a mess.
Anyway, DX10 performance looks great, might just have to get Call of Juarez for me new card.

[Hex]

VR-zone has a review up, but site is down now, guess AMD got angry! :P
Anyway, here is an alternative link (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.marley/index.htm), looks like drivers are not as mature as they should be by now, although it has been reported that some cards shipped with 8.36 drivers and some are already on 8.40! what a mess.
Anyway, DX10 performance looks great, might just have to get Call of Juarez for me new card.

As I suspected on current release games the card performs very similarly to the 8800 GTS, looks like they need to sort out their drivers though. Unless DX10 performance is wildly better than the nVidia cards, it comes down to personal bias/preference, as per the usual. Still, no worries for you eh Tib?

[Tiberio]

I want one simply because it looks to be a good alternative to the GTS, I am running Vista and as such I need a card with stable Vista drivers.
It is inexcusealbe for Nvidia not to have released good Vista drivers 6months after the card was released, Ati's drivers have certainly worked great and there is no reason for me to suspect otherwise with their new range.
Some sites are showing great performance increases with the 8.37 drivers instead of the 8.36 drivers and I do believe that this card, although it certainly is not beating Nvidia, gives it a run for its money in the budget market.
What makes me want this card is the following:
-Supposedly better driver support, this can only mean the card will get better :)

-Fully HDCP compliant with an HDMI adaptor and built-in soundchip.
This means that sound can go through the card so I won't need any extra cables when I in the future have HD players etc, and supposedly the playback of HD works very well on the card.

-The card will be the same price as the GTS 640MB when launched, or at least thats what we're being told.

When I get the card I will make my own tests and see if this was really something worth waiting this long for but I have no doubt that Ati will get their act together and do something with the XTX.
But there is really no point in anyone who has a card from the 8800 series to upgrade to this really.
But the reviews tomorrow will tell me whether or not I am an idiot or if I was clever to wait this long.

[Hex]

I really don't understand why on earth any gamers are actually running vista being as there aren't any DX10 games out yet....still, your reasons for buying the card seem pretty sound, lets hope its as good as it should be :-)

[Tiberio]

Well, I have no problems so far with any game running on Vista and framerates certainly are on par now with XP in some games.
From september onwards I think Vista will be just as good as XP for gaming, and I do love the games folder in Vista, looks soo pretty:P

[Tiberio]

Reviews are starting to come online now.
Here is another from TBreak (http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=511), card looks to perform quite well, although there is still no review of the 2900XT in crossfire, interested to know how well that could perform against the 640GTS in SLI.

[YegaDoyai]

Wrong game b/marked in that one Tib, tells you nothing. All were nVidia favourites so I suspect they showed the best ATi scores and worst nVidia score, SS2 was thrown in so we'd belive it. Seriously, just chill, if you are going to buy it today then do so. I look forward to hearing what you have to say but quit spamming the forum with shit reviews from dubious sites that noone wants to read.

Things I want to know today, where we can get it and it's cost. End of, reviews will take a little time hell the driver isn't even mature yet so these figures mean squat. On average the first 3 drivers see a 25% total gain in a general sense and more in specific examples.

Before I go any further I shall explain why I have faith that the drivers will see such a marked improvement in performance:

Currently your graphics card has the following:

A setup engine
Texturing unit(s) - same as since the dark ages of 3d accleration but FASTER and FATTER
Vertex shader unit(s) - replaces T&L engine
Pixel shader unit(s) - augments the T&L engine and did not exist before that.

In the new breed of cards the shader units are generic shaders, able to do either as needed. This is where the driver optimisation comes in. For DX 9 games the software will not specify how many of each shader unit is required or would be optimal because the cards it was written for had a fixed number of these, so the engines have been optimised to the standard setup which was essentialy 3 texture units : 1,4,8 vertex shaders (VS): (2 * VS) pixel shaders, (2* VS) + VS pixel shaders, (VS)^2 pixel shaders

for low, med and high spec cards. The most recent cards have upped the number of pixel shaders but generaly the geometry engine is less than half that of the pixel engine (which makes sense if you think about it). Incedentaly it was matrox that made the 3 texture units a standard, unfortunately they did it at a time where thier T&L engine could not really puch the vertices as quick as the opposition so they failed to capitalise on it and quickly left the mainstream market.

Anyhoo, so the new cards could just stick to these ratios for DX9 games and live with that performance but in the interests of being quickest developers will assist ATi and nVidia as much as they can to get the drivers optimised for thier specific game. In the past we have seen that specfic drivers changed the texture sampling type on some surfaces in the likes of HL2 and Doom 3 to gain an advantage on thier opponent and like that we will see that specific games will lend themselves to particular optimisations and ratio shifts between the type of shader unit. Of course in DX10 we don;t need to worry about it as it uses a unified shader engine and therefore the driver can quickly analyse and self optimise the best hardware arrangement. All in all quite cool. The other reason I think ATi will see this through? ATi are the ones that have pushed for a unified shader and are the ones that first mooted the pixel shaders > vertex shaders argument. The only real downside is that we all know that nVidias industry support is better, so they may well have better optimised drivers sooner. But all we have to do is look at the specs of the ATi to be assured that it has the potential to be faster.

ATi 320 units > Nvidia 128 units.

DAve once said that in a gross over simplification AMD were quicker because they had smaller pipelines than Intels so for branching code (that was not well predicted- man there is some crazy shit you should read up about) the AMD short pipe was more efficent. Guess what folks, DX10 code branches like you would not belive. Bring on the DX10.

[Tiberio]

I put links to reviews here, but I expect people to make up their own minds in regards to reviews, if you think they suck fine, am I showing all this down your throat and saying "believe it, its true?".
Obviously, you have a problem with me posting reviews, whether or not they aren't good is up to everyone on this forum to decide, but I wouldn't call it "spamming" as you put it.
If you think the reviews suck, fine, but don't insult me at the same time.

[YegaDoyai]

Hey man, you were spamming, this is what a review looks like:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/1/

And this is one that I do not trust but at least can draw some information from.

[Tiberio]

So far, you're the first to say that Yega, if anyone agrees with him let me know. especially mods.
But I do not define this as spamming, just because you have the almighty power of "knowing what we should follow" in terms of hardware doesn't give you a right to insult me, no pun intended.
Fact of the matter is that the reviews are from different sites, might say the same thing, but they are still different.
You and I clearly have different opinions as to the definition of spamming.

And with no further ado, the HD2900XT (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=56&subid=922)
is now available from OcUK at the price of ~275£, more than I expected though.

[YegaDoyai]

The reviews you were posting were little more than collections of numbers that you could draw nothing from other than in his tests those were the number he got, from the review I posted you can get a lot more information and actually come to certain conclusions about the card. I do not suppose to tell you all about hardware, but I do expect that you want an informed opinion, none of the reviews you linked were informed, nor could you become informed through them.

At £275 that makes the crossfire setup a touch more than an ultra, but as it betters the ultra I guess that is about right.

[Tiberio]

Allright Yega, we shall let this argument rest.
I have placed down my order on the card, tomorrow night I will be running benchies etc.
Anyone has something they want tested?
Planning to test this with:
-Futuremark 05/06
-FEAR in game test
-Company of Heroes in game test
-Arma
-X3

Will be doing the tests at 1024x764 and 1280x1024, both with full AA (16X),AF (16X) and without to see the difference.

[YegaDoyai]

Is that the max res you can do? That card is designed with 1280+ res in mind.

No point doing lower res btw, noone still uses lower than 1280 on a new rig.

You should get Call of Juarez (or however it is spelt) demo with it. Screenies and impressions would be appreciated.

What card have you got to compare it with?

[Hex]

Yega, while I agree with you that a lot of the reviews Tib has posted are substandard, I think accusing him of spamming is a touch harsh. He's not forcing you to read them, and he's not claiming everything they say is true. The guy is clearly excited about the card and wants to share every bit of info he can find!

As for the card, looks like a good buy for the money, though not blowing away the nVidia competition. Still, should keep the ATi fanboys more than happy! Personally I think I'm gonna stick to the nVidia cards, by the time I really need DX10 performance I'll be able to afford an upgrade.

As for testing, you might as well test with Source just to use something that everyone knows :-) If you're really bored you can see how it handles CellFactor:Revolution ^^

[Fyndir]

Anyone has something they want tested?
Planning to test this with:
-Futuremark 05/06
-FEAR in game test
-Company of Heroes in game test
-Arma
-X3

Add Cellfactor into the mix just for hilarity. ;)

Do you have Supreme Commander? Maxed out detail levels and doing various things in that could be worth testing while you're at it.

[Tiberio]

Unfortunately I only have a 19" viewsonic VX922 so everyone will have to wait untill september when I get a 24" for those benchies :P
Or alternatively, someone could "lend" me a bigger monitor.
I will be comparing it with the Sapphire X1950pro as that is my previous card, if anyone is running Vista with other cards, you could also post benchies:)
Will try and get the Call of Juarez demo, although the DX10 patch isn't out untill july I think.
Steam sounds good, will run HL2EP1 and CSS.
Anyone know of any good programs for screenshots/fps measurement?
Do have supcom, but don't really know how to play it, will run it with max. settings but I thought the game's performance was more dependant on CPU?

I wouldn't go as far as to call myself an Ati fanboy, but due to my stupidity of running Vista, my options on the graphics card market is very limited:P

[YegaDoyai]

The more I read about the card the more unsure I am.

this is a hardware or architechture review:

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/16/1

Seems like ATi are going with some pretty innovitive stuff. Problem is that it needs to be supported to work. The tesselation units in each pipe are interesting and some other crazy shit that should see some real performance increases if they are used but history tells us that non nVidia cool features are ignored by the industry. We shall see eh?

Also, yes the price does seem high Tib, you sure you are not going to wait for other retail channels to pick it up and give ocuk a fight?

Edit:
Oh and remember to bench with at least 8*AA and full AF

[Tiberio]

I highly doubt that the price will change much in the first month Yega, it was widely believed that the price would be +250£, and my limit was 300£.
Ati does seem to throw in a lot of fancy things, the new AA modes sound interesting and the tesselation thing sounds good as well, but like you mentioned , support is what Ati needs.
Tomorrow I will make my own test and see whether or not this card deserves to be an expensive paper weight or if it gives me the performance increase i'd expect from a 100£ card.
At the next lan, if all goes well with the card, I will happily lend it out to those who wish to test it on their systems before deciding on purchase.

[Hex]

Tomorrow I will make my own test and see whether or not this card deserves to be an expensive paper weight or if it gives me the performance increase i'd expect

Well if it does turn out to be an expensive paperwight, you may find you can make a killing flogging it on ebay if stocks start running low. Nonetheless, I'm confident that it'll be worth keeping.

[Tiberio]

What i'm mostly interested in seeing is how Ati's 512bit interface stands against the 8800 series lower 356bit, reviews seem to indicate that it's at higher resolutions and with eyecandy turned to full that this card pushes the most power.
Ati's homepage has the 2000 series up for those interested.

[Uuurrahh]

If a bigger monitor is massively desired, I only live a couple of hundred metres from Tiberio and I'll happily cart mine over.

[Tiberio]

Thx Uuuuraaah (spelt right?:P), it would be used for a few hrs max.
Tomshardware has released their review (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/05/14/r600_finally_dx10_hardware_from_ati_uk/).

[Hex]

FFS when did tomshardware start playing SHIT dance over their website? Is there any way to turn that crap off?

[Uuurrahh]

FFS when did tomshardware start playing SHIT dance over their website? Is there any way to turn that crap off?

+100. It's the ATI advertisment usually in the middle of the article. There's a volume button on it you can turn off. But as it's on every fucking page I just turned my sound of as I read the article

[Hex]

Well I just finished reading the article (ridiculously in-depth lol). Interesting stuff, the card seems to have a clear advantage over the 8800 GTS. However, both these cards piss all over any game you'd care to name at anything other than a ridiculously high resolution, so in terms of noticeable difference as opposed to benchmarking theres probably nothing in it.

What will be interesting to see is if ATi's DX10 performance is significantly better than nVidia's, but that'll take a few more months no doubt. It will also be interesting to see if 8800 GTS prices drop in the coming weeks due to the new release; no doubt nVidia could afford to drop the profit margin in order to maintain market dominance. Either way Tib, I don't think you'll be dissapointed with your purchase :)

As an aside, I'm absolutely appalled at the fact I had to turn my speakers off and listen to music on my iPod while reading that review. I appreciate that tomshardware need to make money, but the weight of advertising on the site is already pretty hefty without throwing a dance loop onto the speakers. Not really effective advertising anyway as I couldn't work out where the fuck the music was coming from!

[Thanatos]

yeh it is very annoying. Some times the box is in the middle of the page, sometimes its in a bar at the side. Annoyed me to the point of skipping straight along to benchmarks and final thoughts. Might read it more in depth later if the revision gets too boring.

[YegaDoyai]

read the two I put up, they cover the same stuff but in more detail. The tomshardware one spends alot of time on the 3dmark 05 benchies which is odd.

[Tiberio]

Have checked with OcUK and my card should be here tomorrow morning, will try and post some pics of it at least before I go to my exam.
And that advertisement was the most annoying thing since that one with the buzzing wasp thing, is it that hard not to have sound in your ads?

[YegaDoyai]

Oh Tib i remembered about an old Far Cry tech demo, you can download it off the ATi site from the 'developers' section. Looks like your card will be bundled with at least a couple of tech demos, so tell us what you think of them too? Do you have any HD stuff? I'd be interested to know how you find the full HW processing of HD streams works and if it really saves your CPU.

Good luck with the exam and look forward to hearing your results.

[Tiberio]

HD stuff, I don't have anything i'm afraid, completely confused in regards to 19" monitors and what they support, be it 720 or 480?
I'm downloading the new Ruby HD demo as that is 1280X720, will see what that looks like.
I'll definetely see what demos etc. I get with the card and whether or not Vista can get it to run hehe, but looking at reviews, Vista support is straight out of the box.
Farcry demo U say? Doesn't Farcry have an in-game tech demo of some sort like Fear has?
It's just that im having very weird issues with farcry not accepting my G5 mouse in-game, under menus it works but not in-game, so a tech demo would definetely work untill I get that issue sorted.
EDIT, can't seem to find it anywhere on the Ati site:(

Off topic, it doesn't look like the PSU requirements are as bad as thought, on the Ati site they have released a list of compatible PSU's for crossfire and even a few 730W ones are on the list.

[Hex]

Yet another review of the card here at TechReport (http://techreport.com/reviews/2007q2/radeon-hd-2900xt/index.x?pg=1). This was linked from Slashdot, make of that what you will.

And another, this time from TweakTown (http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1100/ati_radeon_hd_2900_xt_amd_s_long_awaited_r600_dx10 _gpu_arrives/index.html). Again from slashdot. I will stop now lol

EDIT: Second review is crap, they're comparing the card to the 8800GTX only, total waste of time.

[Tiberio]

Card has arrived, a few pics and then after my exam today I shall start the benchmarking:)

http://liveu-28.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252230_HIS_001.JPG

http://liveu-29.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252230_HIS_002.JPG

http://liveu-30.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252230_HIS_003.JPG

http://liveu-31.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252230_HIS_006.JPG

http://liveu-32.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252230_HIS_012.JPG

My initial impressions are good, the card is heavy and seems robust, the fan is very big so I guess this baby can push out a lot of air!

With the card I recieved the following:
-Voucher for a free copy of Valve's black box
-driver cd
-2 DVI - VGA adaptors
-1 DVI-HDMI adaptor
-1 HDTV adaptor
-1 VIVO HD adaptor
-1 Crossfire bridge
-DVD with the following:

-Dungeon Siege FULL GAME
-Gameshadow Utility program
-Demos of Rollercoaster tycoon 3, hf2, act of war, tribes vengeance, axis & allies.

I also got a full retail copy of Cyberlink DVD solution 4.

And now back to revision.

[DAve]

Card has arrived
really, you bought one? wow.

[ edit: that makes me three generations behind in graphics cards now. :( endedit]

How much?

[YegaDoyai]

£275, read the thread.

[Tiberio]

Tiberio's review of the ATI HD2900XT

Ati, as all of us know by now, were meant to launch their new R600 series early this year.
When the series were finally released on the 14/05/07 many people questioned whether or not Ati
completely messed up this round.
Read on and see what this card did for my pc.

Testbed:

-Core2Duo E6600 @ 2.40GHz
-Asus P5WDH Deluxe MB
-Geil 2x1GB Ultra low latency 800MHz ram
-2x 250GB Western Digital SE16 HD's
-X-fi card with I/O port
-Sony DVDRW drive
-Lian Li V1000PLUSII case
-HIS HD2900XT/ Sapphire X1950pro
-Tagan 700W PSU
-Vista Home Premium

As you can see I did not run an OC on my CPU, as you will see, this created quite a bottleneck in one particular area.
The new Ati card was put up against the 1950pro and they both ran the exact same games with the same settings.
Games tested were:
-Oblivion (no mods)
-Fear
-Company of Heroes
-CSS
-Call of Juarez SP Demo

Fear, CSS and CoH were tested using in game stress tests, the rest were tested with a 3minute recording of fps using FRAPS.
I chose these games cause they are some of the most graphics intensive on the market, will happily run benchies in other games if people request it.


Install:

Installing the card was dead easy, uninstall drivers, plug in card, start up and install new drivers.
http://liveu-59.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252412_HIscard.jpg

Drivers were a bit interesting though, with the 8.36 drivers (came with the card) there was no problems, but Call of Juarez had some strange issues with shadows on the 8.37 drivers.

http://liveu-61.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252412_CoJDemo_2007_05_15_21_35_31_14.jpg

But once that was sorted with a revert back to the 8.36 drivers, this was what I ended up with in Call of Juarez.

http://liveu-60.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252412_cojXT.jpg

This was just so pretty and I took a screenie, I completely forgot to take any from other games but the above gives a small taste of what this card can do.


Known Issues with card:

1. Noise, the card tends to be very noisy, when on desktop the card randomly switches on the fan full blast for 10 seconds every 20mins, it's loud but so are my case fans.
During gaming it happens ofter but I didn't see it as a problem because noise from the games overdo it.
However, it seems that a driver fix is needed as the card fan is either on or not at all, if the card was overheating the card would attempt to cool it constantly.
Also, the card was warm after 5+hrs of gaming, but I did not see any decrease in performance when going back to games I started with.
2.PSU requirement, you need at least a 500W psu to be absolutely sure but it all depends on the effectiveness of said PSU i guess.
And now, lets get it on with benchmarking!

3DMARK06:

Sapphire X1950pro:

-4983
-sm 2.0: 1896
-sm 3.0: 2024
-CPU2011

This is what I expected from this card, a 1950pro just cannot do this test very well, however, the 2900XT produced some very strange results.

HD2900XT:

http://liveu-63.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/media2/jpg/2007/5/15/FLURL-dot-com-252414_Clipboard01.jpg

As you can see, this was an extremely low score for a card that supposedly can do 10000+ easy, I came to the conclusion that a bottleneck must exist in my system, most likely my CPU.
Honestly, I have never seen the need for 3DMARK scores, they have no influence on gaming as the next scores will show.


FEAR (1280X1024, 6X AA/16AF, max settings):

X1950pro:
-min 17
-max 36
avg 24

No surprise there, I always play without AA and AF due to my card as it would otherwise be unplayable.

HD2900XT:
-min 45
-max 178
avg 81

This clearly shows that the new card is more than capable in FEAR, Ati has boasted about the 512bit bus and it clearly shows that the XT seems very comfortable with hardware intensive games.


Company of Heroes (1280X1024, 16X AF/ 6X AA, max settings):

X1950pro:
-min 25.4
-max 153.2
-avg 58

Nothing to say here really, great performance from the card.

HD2900XT:
-min 55.1
-max 245
-avg 103.5

The XT shows itself more than capable at this as well, but I had the feeling that it wasn't really a test for it, the card seems made for 22+ screens.


CSS (1280X1024, 6X AA/16X AF, max settings):

X1950pro:
-avg 129.05

HD2900XT:
-avg 151.93

This result reminded me that CSS is not that hardware intensive, but I still wonder if it will do better at higher resolutions.


Oblivion (1280X1024, 6X AA on, max settings).

I tested this by running around outside in the forest near the imperial city itself as there are patches of trees and open areas.

X1950pro:
-min 6
-max 31
-avg 12

Even without AA on this card stutters a lot outside and getting a new graphics card was mainly because of this.

HD2900XT:
-min 26
-max 116
-avg 63.53

This was great news for me, the game finally seems playable with all the eyecandy full up, I tried with the Natural enviroments mod and recieved exact same result!


Call of Juarez (1280X1024, 6X AA/16X AF, max settings).

X1950pro:
-min 14
-max 46
-avg 23.8

This card barely pulled it through but visual quality seemed very low and jittery.

HD2900XT:
-min 20
-max 88
-avg 60.2

This completely blew me away, I have never seen such a pretty looking game, smooth curves, great effects and the card didn't even start the fan!


Conclusion:

So, was the 6 months worth it?
My honest opinion is split quite frankly, the card has the capacity to perform very well, and it did in all the things I threw at it.
But the card is made for bigger monitors I reckon and I therefore didn't get to see the full potential of the card.
Drivers are another issue, it is unforgiveable by Ati not to have perfect drivers out at the launch after 6 months, agreed the drivers work great, but the fan noise
will drive anyone insane when using the desktop, gaming really doesn't matter unless you like to play without sound that is:P
I do not regret buying this card in anyway, it works great, gives good results, drivers are stable and I got 4 free games with it!
I tried the HD Ruby demo from the Ati website, but no matter what I tried, it crashed to desktop every single time, I think it's because of my VX922 monitor but I really have no proof as to what is causing it.
During summer I will buy a 24" monitor as that was a reason for this purchase and I have no doubt that Ati will release drivers to fix the fan issue and various other things that users have problems with.

Now, should any of you buy it?
I would say, only if you do HD/22+ monitors and need a hassle free solution to it as the card supposedly does great in HD.
If you are considering an upgrade to a DX10 card, then have a look at this, but if the few minor driver issues aren't worked out when you're making the purchase, dont bother.
The card is a great card for the money and handles intense graphics very impressively and I am buying Call of Juarez tomorrow simply because of the beauty the 2900XT can create.
If you are running Vista, this card is probably the one to get as there is litterally no fps loss in comparison to XP.

And there you have it, any benchies you want added (just tried Arma @ max settings, runs like a dream), let me know or any other questions about the card.
For the next Lan people can borrow it I reckon.
And I also have a Sapphire X1950pro for sale:P

[Hex]

Hehe, glad to hear you're enjoying your purchase ^^

If the fan really bothers you, I wouldn't imagine it would be difficult to either route the fan through a fan controller of some sort or replace it with an after market graphics cooling solution (see this (http://www.pausegaming.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1169) thread for some screens of a shiny new one).

As for the ATi Ruby Demo, I'd be surprised if it crashes to desktop because of your monitor - if that is the case it should really provide an error as it won't be crashing, it'll just be shutting down because your hardware doesn't meet HD spec. More likely just a buggy tech demo tbh, might run better under XP.

[Thanatos]

hmm X1950 pro you say. Would likely show an improvement to my 6800GS. Is it the 256 or 512?

[Hex]

Barring strange hardware issues I'd say it would definitely prove an improvement on a 6800 GS, regardless of the total RAM on the card. Cut him a deal Tib ;)

[YegaDoyai]

Nice one Tib, I'd suggest getting the Ati tray tools update as soon as it supports that card. Currently it supports having your own mapping for the fan speeds and allows OC etc on a per game basis. Much better than the CCC.

Looks like the lower end models might be the ideal solution for a 19" TFT then?

[Hex]

Bit-tech review of the 2900XT (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/05/16/r600_ati_radeon_hd_2900_xt/1). I promise this is the last review I will post lol, but I find the bit-tech reviews helpful and informative without being too heavy a read.

[Tiberio]

The 1950pro is the 256mb version from the company Sapphire.
Works great and is very silent for me.
Would 50£ be a good price?

In regards to fan noise, I am really not that bothered by it, but some are bothered by loud fans.
The next driver update should fix this issue but the card was a great purchase no doubt.
People have reported having problems fitting aftermarket coolers onto the card as there aren't any out yet that are officially up to specs with the card, but as always they will come and I will definetely get one if fan issues arent solved.
Random question, is there any really good way to do cable management?
I did a fair bit when i changed the cards because it was a good excuse for it but it still doesn't look great.

[YegaDoyai]

£50!! Mine!

Well I would if I had the £50 but I don't :(

[DAve]

The 1950pro is the 256mb version from the company Sapphire.
Would 50£ be a good price?
If it was the AGP version, I would have taken it. It's the PCI-E though, isn't it?

[Sid]

I'm tempted to take it for crossfire - just for a laugh.

[Thanatos]

It's the PCI-E though, isn't it?

I hope so

[Tiberio]

Yes, its the PCI-E version :)

Off topic, any recommendations on a CPU cooler, my stock intel cooler is acting up (ie.making way too much noise).
All it needs to do is that it should fit my V1000 case and be as quiet as possible.
Going to try OC'ing soon so good cooling is a must as well :P

[YegaDoyai]

tuniq tower > all

Already dropped a fiver (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-074-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=922)

[Tiberio]

Damn, I could have bought 2 pints for that fiver! :(

I ordered the Noctua NH-12UF CPU cooler as it can move 90 degrees, and reviews suggest it's good for the money.
I also ordered an Akasa fan controller pro, and 3 papst 120mm fans, and when I open up the pc again, I will use the 100cm sata cables I have somewhere to do some more cable management.
Oh yeah, I also have some arctic silver 5 lying around.
All in all, I spend too much money on my pc :)

[Fyndir]

Hobbit is clearly rich.

Hobbit shall give Troll money! >=(

[YegaDoyai]

if you check here (http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2976&p=5) you'll see why I did not reccomend it over the tuniq and the tuniq is also able to mount thought 90degrees. But there is very little in it.

[Hex]

50 quid would be a *very* reasonable price IMO Tib, I did a search for completed items on ebay (used only) and they go for £75 minimum. The question is, how generous do you feel? ;)

[Thanatos]

Yeh but thats ebay and only £20 off a brand spanker (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/119203/rb/27861278651). In fact with Google checkout still hanging around thats only £10 off a new one.

/whispers to Hex to stfu before Tib ups the price. Smiles at Tiberio


Do i get a discount for arranging my own pick-up? :-D

[Tiberio]

Of course, you shall get 2 cans of Carlsberg for your troubles :)
You can of course pay more or give me some random things if you feel like it but the card is used and I had great fun with it, I could take money of you but it's not my style.

And Yega, I clearly see from looking at the review that the Noctua isn't the best, but it is pointed out that the cooler is very silent, the most important thing I considered when making my purchase.
Now I know other coolers are probably able to be even more silent, but this one gives a lot for the price I think.
Also, i'm definetely not planning on OC'ing as far as I possibly can, i'm going to OC untill the 3.5 ghz mark if I can keep it stable, as far as I know the C2D's function well up untill 65+ degrees, question is the amount of heat dissipated in the case.
The V1000 is very good at cooling already so I hardly doubt it will make too big a difference, but I will just see when I get going tomorrow.

[Thanatos]

£50 then mister banker? Deal.

[Hex]

mmmmm its upgrade season all round then ^^ there will be some shiny shiny hardware in most machines at the next LAN it seems...

[Tiberio]

£50 then mister banker? Deal.

I will include the driver CD if I can find it + a crossfire cable so you can buy another one if you ever get the money and do crossfire :P

[Thanatos]

ok cool. Doubt I ever will as i have an NF4 based board atm, but its gud to have

[Tiberio]

Hobbit is clearly rich.

Hobbit shall give Troll money! >=(

Troll gets a pint instead! :-D

[Fyndir]

Troll gets a pint instead! :-D

Troll doesn't drink alcohol, Hobbit must die. >=(

P.S. <3

[Tiberio]

Troll gets chocolate instead if Hobbit leaves any.

[Fyndir]

Troll gets chocolate instead if Hobbit leaves any.

This is acceptable.

[Thanatos]

Thanks Tiberio. I have it installed and working fine now. Only strange hardware issue was that it stopped my joystick working properly but thats all sorted now.

Also, after the horrendous fail the first time I tried to install 3Dmark 06 (Here (http://www.pausegaming.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=180&d=1179421171)) I downloaded it again from another site. This one had a nasty smelly virus on it which Im pretty sure iv got rid of now.
But every now and then I keep getting a popup for online casino's and the like, always advertising the same sites. AVG and Adaware dont pick anything up when I scan, any suggestions?

[CaNNoN_FoDDa]

Check your registry?

[Hex]

AVG and Adaware dont pick anything up when I scan, any suggestions?

Personally I use Avast rather than AVG, but in the past I've found Trojan Defence Suite to be useful - I had a particularly resilient virus once that AVG and the like didn't see, but TDS eradicated it no trouble. I have an install somewhere if you can't find it for any reason.

[Thanatos]

Couldnt find Trojan defence but i found another program by the same people called regprot, and that found sum stuff in the registry that I dont think should have been there. Just waiting to see if the pop ups return

[Thanatos]

well they did return and a quick search on google with their filenames pointed me in the direction of VundoFix. The Vundo trojan I managed to get was a sly one that needed a couple of reboots and running at startup to get.

\Whispers quietly: all seems ok for now though

RegProt actually monitors and tells you if somethings being written to the registry and lets you yey or nay it. So quite useful.

So the lesson of the day being: Always use adequate protection

*Edit: Sorry for the double post but no one would have seen an edit and well I just wasnt really concentrating.

*Edit 2: In the interest of topic relevency...HD 2900 XT is now £252 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-074-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=922). Did you deal a few days too early Tib?

[Hex]

Yeah just had a quick look at the website, RegProt seems pretty smart, I'll install that on the new machine when I get it. Haven't had any virus problems in a while but extra protection is never a bad idea :)


*Edit 2: In the interest of topic relevency...HD 2900 XT is now £252 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-074-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=922). Did you deal a few days too early Tib?

Hah and I thought maybe the release of the 2900 would lead to 8800 prices dropping, so much for that lol.

[Tiberio]

Ah, well, it's what you pay on launch day :P