PSU burnout [Archive] - Pause Gaming Forums

DAve

25th July 2007, 21:45

Raj has told me that his PSU (came with the Antec case) has just bit the dust. After a few false starts and problems it finally spewed out some black smoke and rolled over. :(

Since it's only a year old, I thought I might ask some advice. Since it was bought from a reputable online retailer (quietPC), what are the chances of getting an return or replacement?
(we both agree that PSUs should last more than a year in any case)

Failing that, does anyone have a spare PSU that I could borrow for a week until he gets a new one?
Replacement suggestions would be very much welcomed too - he's got an AMD X2 and a X1600 graphics card, so nothing too power hungry and needs a SATA connector. Apart from that, he would like something that's quiet if possible.

Cheers, all.

Fyndir

25th July 2007, 23:18

Any warranty cover?

I'd say contact them, the worst that happens is they say "Feck off, money is our preciousss" and bite your finger off.

YegaDoyai

25th July 2007, 23:35

Goto the Antec site, all products come with a 3 year limited warranty. I'd say you are well within your rights to get a replacement from Antec, I doubt QuietPC will do anything but they might handle the RMA for you. I can't see them doing this for anything other than a good customer or a high value product, of which I suspect Raj and his PSU are not.

Bummer to hear it burned out, but I've never really been a huge fan of their PSUs.

Can we get the tech specs of his machine and PSU please, just for reference. I seem to remember discussions in the pub suggesting it was a pretty tame machine.

lordofthemoon

26th July 2007, 10:35

Ta for the help. I contacted Antec who say that they've outsourced their warranty stuff to another company who only deal with resellers. So I went back to QuietPC and they emailed Antec again (and CCed me) to ask for further details. I haven't heard anything since.

My machine has an Athlon X2 4400+; 2GB RAM, X1600 graphics card (passively cooled), 300GB primary HD and 500GB secondary (both SATA) and a couple of optical drives.

I can't remember the specs of the PSU off the top of my head but it had 450w output.

Fyndir

26th July 2007, 11:51

On a side note, why do so many things seem to be breaking this year?

Is it coincidence that everything is breaking while Intel slash prices?

I THINK NOT. >=(

Phizz

26th July 2007, 12:53

It's more likely it's to do with the wild variances in weather we've been having Fyndir. I was in Tesco this wednesday and they suddenly had a power surge. But it was a really sunny day. Perhaps we're seeing the effects of poor shielding.

Fyndir

26th July 2007, 13:32

Exactly, and what's causing the weather?

INTEL'S WEATHER CONTROL MACHINE.

It's a giant conspiracy designed to force us to buy more Intel products, they're sneaky buggers, but I'm onto them. >=(

YegaDoyai

26th July 2007, 14:13

Err, you what? What has broken this year, give me a list.

Hey Raj, hopefully QuietPC will get on their case, from what I know QuietPC are pretty decent hopefully it shouldn't be too long before you get it replaced.

My rig is running a 420W PSU but is a generation behind in CPU and half the memory. Even so I'd expect that your setup even at peak wouldn't be drawing fully 400W. I'd have a closer look at the 12v rails see what they actually support and maybe not daisy chain the power of the drives if you were doing so.

lordofthemoon

26th July 2007, 16:59

I'd need to double-check but I don't think that the drives are daisy-chained together.

To be honest, I have no idea where the 12v rails are nor how to check what's coming off them, but Dave has offered to help me once the new supply turns up.

LastChanceHotel

30th July 2007, 06:00

DAve

30th July 2007, 15:33

I've lost three power supplies and a motherboard this year to my Opteron - mainly due to errors on my part, but still, sigh.

If Raj makes a big fuss to the retailer or whoever they end up passing the buck to (reinforce 'it could've caused a fire! there was smoke everywhere!'), he should be able to get a replacement.
Yeah, but how much power are you shoving through that PSU? Massive overclocks for the win ;)

I'll tell him all about it when he gets back from his holidays, thanks for the advice, Jan.

Strings

30th July 2007, 15:49

Yeah, but how much power are you shoving through that PSU? Massive overclocks for the win ;)

I'll tell him all about it when he gets back from his holidays, thanks for the advice, Jan.

Not sure it was a case of how much power he was shoving through it...

The "flying keys" incident springs to mind ;)

LastChanceHotel

1st August 2007, 06:52

The "flying keys" incident springs to mind ;)

Oh, the memories.

What's more, Strings remembers exactly how dodgy my power supply arrangement was for so long... "It's making a sizzling noise but the rails are rock solid! I'll get a new power supply later, this one is doing just fine - it just takes a few attempts to power up!"

First PSU: killed by flying keys, 10 minutes before going to a LAN.
Second PSU: [temporary one given to me by Yega] died of overloading 2 months later.
Third PSU: [suckier version of Q-tec first PSU] - made sizzling noise, then fucked my motherboard.
Fourth PSU: RMA'ed motherboard, bought Tagan 700w quad-12v-rail PSU for £100.

If only I'd had the balls to buy the tagan in the first place!

Still, 2.0ghz to 2.8ghz, not an insignificant overclock :)

YegaDoyai

1st August 2007, 17:31

Yegas PC in the same time frame:
Bought Tagan
Overclocked from 1.6 - 2.4
ROCK SOLID!

Captain_Caveman

1st August 2007, 17:52

Caveman timeline:

Buy tagan 480W psu (along with rest of pc, including e4300 core 2 duo)
overclock from 1.8Ghz to 2.8Ghz but little unstable so reduce multiplier by 1 and up FSB to get 3.0Ghz.
Sit back and enjoy with rock solid performance so far(touch wood).

YegaDoyai

2nd August 2007, 01:08

Tagan + overclock is now the minimum requirement for techno-cool.

Fyndir

2nd August 2007, 02:40

='(

Troll are not techno-cool?

YegaDoyai

2nd August 2007, 14:24

Has tagan, does not overclock = not techno-cool.

Fyndir

2nd August 2007, 14:34

Troll scared of overclock, troll has no money for replacement parts if something go boom.

Strings

2nd August 2007, 14:48

Overclocking is easy as pish if you a little background reading first.

DAve

2nd August 2007, 18:55

Overclocking is easy as pish if you a little background reading first.
it's too easy now. Used to be you had to go in with jumpers and spend time getting it to boot.
Now it's just increase it through the bios. No fun at all.

Hex

2nd August 2007, 19:40

it's too easy now. Used to be you had to go in with jumpers and spend time getting it to boot.
Now it's just increase it through the bios. No fun at all.

Again with the grey hair dave! You remind me of the middle aged programmers at IBM who keep telling me Java is no fun compared to Assembler!

YegaDoyai

3rd August 2007, 16:40

For the record:

Overclocking now is more rewarding but less 'seat of the pants' exciting.

Assembler is way more fun to program than java or any other high level language and anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't really enjoy programming at all and would probably be happier if they could write in clear English to get the computer to do what they want. (again, fun does NOT mean productive.)

Sideshow

3rd August 2007, 16:47

You're an idiot.

YegaDoyai

3rd August 2007, 17:44

Your generalisation that because I enjoy the simple and direct nature of assembly programming compared to the abstracted and symbolic nature of high level programming is hardly justified. Assembler is about optimisation and hardware, finite limits and tangible achivement. High level programming requires knowledge of your compiler (or, god-forbid an interpreter) for optimisation and requires a very abstracted view of the technology for optimal use. Assembler is camping in the woods and going fishing in the morning. High level programming is sleeping in your own bed at home and remembering which packets in your kitchen contain the cereal in the morning.

Noone wants to programming assembler all the time, but it sure is nice once in a while.

Hex

3rd August 2007, 19:16

Assembler is way more fun to program than java or any other high level language and anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't really enjoy programming at all and would probably be happier if they could write in clear English to get the computer to do what they want. (again, fun does NOT mean productive.)

While less blunt, this generalisation is no more accurate or logical than Sideshows statement. High level languages like Java allow the programmer to focus on the important work of the program without getting bogged down in the low level of shifting values between registers. Assembler on the other hand allows for more customisation/optimization but involves far more hard labour. Both kinds of languages are useful, but for different applications, and are enjoyable for different kinds of people.

I highly enjoy programming Java and C, but Assembler is too low level - I find it far more difficult to think in the right way to write good Assembly code. I also find your suggestion that those who prefer high level languages don't really enjoy programming both short-sighted and ignorant - you're taking an opinion and trying to treat it as fact. Lets have less of the "I am the l33t low level hardcore, java programming is for pussies" insinuations please...

EDIT: Incidentally just noticed this has gone *wildly* off topic. Thread split maybe?

YegaDoyai

3rd August 2007, 19:42

At no point did I make reference or connotation that high level languages were 'easier' just that their level of abstraction from the root hardware and as such the finite limits and implimentation of the machine on which they are to work is harder to justify. The single purpose of high level languages is to abstract the hardware, secondary goals include, simplification of symbolic logic, ease of use (think any scripting language) and readability. These factors essentially lend themselves very well to being programmed in plain English which would by all accounts be easier than any meta language. Therefore my generalisation is hardly as weakly identifiable as you suggest, nor does it contain any more malice than suggesting that because you prefer UT you are not as good as those that prefer Quake. But it is true, programming - not writing prose - is best done at the low level. If you can't see that the ultimate high level language would be you native language then you are missing something.

Hex

3rd August 2007, 19:51

Apologies, my quote was too long - the piece of your post I was objecting too was the statement that assembly is more fun and that anyone who disagrees doesn't really enjoy programming. I also disagree that the ultimate high level language would be programming in your own tongue - English is *far* too ambiguous to be a programming language!

As for your other points, the notion than Quake players are "better" than UT players is every bit as subjective and objectionable as the notion that Assembly is "better" than Java. Both are opinions, not facts. The same is true of your insistence that programming is "best done at the low level" - this is simply not true 100% of the time! Disregarding completely the ambiguity of the word "best" there are many programming problems which can be solved just as efficiently with C as with assembler, and plenty more which can be solved just as efficiently with Java as with C. More than that, if we follow your argument about the low level, programming would be "best" done in machine code, and I'm sure we can all see the fallacy in that argument.

YegaDoyai

3rd August 2007, 21:07

Hex, read my post the comparison was made for that exact reason, it is a viewpoint, it is just as subjective, it can be justified in many ways but ultimately it is simply an opinion, which, last time I checked I was allowed to hold.

And I disagree about the machine code -> assembler statement and also the c -> assembler comparison. For C to be as efficent as assembler require knowledge of how your compiler compiles and setup your datastructe and code such that it compiles to efficent assembler, reducing C to an assembler macro language that it is often given the monkier of. As for the machine code -> assembler statement, the only objective of assembler is to make machine code human readable. That is the only required abstraction and does not impose any symbolic or hardware abstraction that generaly makes programming so difficult to tie to the hardware in high level languages which ruins the fun.

Yes any spoken language is too ambiguous, that is why there is no compiler, but it would be easier and faster to write code in English for anyone if we could make a compiler.

Sideshow

4th August 2007, 04:22

No, it wouldn't, because that is COBOL. The difficulty of programming doesn't come in the syntax of the language (i.e. typing in English or in C), but in expressing a problem in a computable manner. High level languages make expressing a problem easier. With a good HLL, like Lisp, you have to work out the problem. With Assembler you have to work out the problem then work out the code. A modern assembler can optimise at least as well as hand-coded Assembly. Yes, sometimes it's more fun to skateboard than drive a car, but on the other hand you can drive to Calais in a day. Saying "skateboarding is way more fun than driving and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't really enjoy travelling at speed" is... idiotic.

YegaDoyai

4th August 2007, 16:39

Amusingly, my over analysis of sideshows reply has made me realise two things.

One.
He is right, in assembler, you have to work out how to solve the problem and then how to code. My reason for enjoying it? Working out the code, most - if not all - the high level programming problems I've had to solve have been trivial affairs therefore have presented little oppertunity to flex my problem solving ability. With assembler you ALWAYS need your problem solving hat on.

Two.
Your analysis is wrong, to compare skateboarding to assembler is weak in that the principle design of the skateboard is for recreation not transportation. Transportation is a fringe benifit at best. A more suited analogy would be to compare Horse riding to driving a car, (if we assume that walking is machine code). It has the simple abstraction to walking that removes the majority of effort involved in transportation without really seperating you from the method (it is the horse walking not you). Then the car is far more capable of dealing with longer journeys even though some people think that horses are more fun. Which brings me to the latter point in your analogy which was to specify not just transportation, but transportation at speed. There was no such secondary clause to my statement and as such only the primary reasoning is valid. Sadly, this left me with only one course of action, which is to admit (although I'm sure most of you could have guessed by now) that I hate, WITH A FUCKING PASSION, horses. Which goes to show that all analogies are flawed.

Oh and just think I should mention that:

All iD games are now available on steam $62.95 total cost. FOR ALL OF THEM!

do it now!

Hex

4th August 2007, 17:57

lol at the horses ^^

I think tbh this is just a matter of personal taste - some people love the low level problem solving that languages like Assembler require, whereas others (like myself) prefer the high level problem solving involved with languages such as Java. In a way, Assembly programmers are more like engineers whereas Java programmers are more like architects...but hey this is just gonna lead us to another bad analogy lol.

LastChanceHotel

13th August 2007, 02:36

tbh, most everything was done in ASM first, and then those building blocks were used to let higher level languages do their stuff. It all depends on what level you want or need or it is sensible to solve the problem at.

If you want a challenge, try coding a forum or something in lolcode!

Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 was coded entirely in Assembily. That's called masochism, right there...

Hex

13th August 2007, 19:44

MenuetOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menuetos), a fully functioning 32/64 bit OS with GUI, written entirely in FASM assembler by one man. Now that's masochism!

YegaDoyai

14th August 2007, 11:17

Just had a look at that MeOS, I quite like it. it amused me that the distro is in ISO format but is the size of a floppy. I'm trying to think of a use for it but other than it's integrated FASM I don't really see it being anything other than a novelty, I mean, who has a x86 chip but only floppy for storage and minimal ram requirements? However, it dows support TinyGL which appears to be a subset of OpenGL, if they could increase the support for that then it could become the basis for a decent homebrew console.