PDA

View Full Version : Thoughts on my rig


Hex
16th August 2007, 19:46
Well, at Yega's request I'm gonna lay out my rig, part by part, with my reckoning on each component. There will be pictures of the rig added at such time as I can be bothered to upload them! So, without further ado....

First thing to discuss would be the case, an Antec P182. There are many reviews out there which explain in ample terms just how awesome a case this is, and in many ways I agree thoroughly. It's a spacious case compared to many others, with space for enough optical drives and HDDs to satisfy all but the most storage obsessed user - my rig has 3 HDDs and 2 DVD drives accommodated quite comfortably, with space for more should I ever want them. I have two major complaints about the case - the first is the obscene weight of the thing, just under 15kg when empty, it's not exactly light. The second complaint I have is that despite being a large case, it can still get a bit cramped when you've got tons of bits and pieces in there - most notably I had some trouble getting my PSU into the case. This is partly due to the fact that it is longer than a standard ATX PSU (so much for standards eh?) but even once I got my PSU into the case, I ended up having to remove the case's cable tidies in order to actually get all the cabling through from the PSU compartment into the main part of the case. My one regret with this build was not buying a modular PSU, as the extra cables are a real PITA. One last complaint about the case is that while it features 3 layer dampening in the sides, and is billed as a silent case, the fans are actually somewhat noisy. If you are serious about building a silent machine, I'd recommend you buy this case, but strip the 3 bundled fans out and replace them with silent fans. Nonetheless, gripes aside I would give this case a hearty 9/10.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/CA-070-AN_400.jpg

As it cropped up in the case discussion, next component would be the PSU, a Tagan Dual Engine 700W. This PSU is excellent in nearly every respect - as far as I can tell it is silent, and it certainly does a more than adequate job of powering the rig, with more than enough cables to power anything and everything you could possibly throw at it, including an SLI setup (it's an SLI certified PSU). A few minor complaints would be that it's longer than the ATX standard, and it's not modular, but then if you really want modularity I guess you pay the extra for the feature - Tagan make modular PSUs for a bit more money. Overall I would rate this 9.5/10, an excellent PSU.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/CA-014-TG_400.jpg

Next up is the motherboard, an Asus Striker Extreme. At around £200, this is an expensive board, and really reserved for enthusiasts, and rich enthusiasts at that. Asus offer other boards with nearly all the features of this one for close to half the price, so if you're on a budget, don't bother with this. If however (like me) you have money to burn, I can't recommend this board highly enough. Ignore any horror stories you may have read on the Asus forums - the early revisions of this board suffered problems but it has been well and truly tweaked, leaving us with a solid as rock board. It has all the features you could really ever want from an nVidia chipset board; it's SLi capable, has more than enough expansion slots (3xPCI-E, 2xPCI, 3 USB headers, 1 Firewire Header, 1 IDE and 6 SATA), supports DDR2 up to 800Mhz and CPUs up to 1333 FSB including Quad core, so one way and another it's as upgradeable as a motherboard ever really can be.

The BIOS is not only full of features but very friendly and well organised - no dubious options or bad English translations to be found here. I had no trouble at all setting the machine up with the correct RAM timings and other settings, and while I've yet to try the CPU OCing options they look both friendly and extensive. If you really want to you can also OC the RAM from the BIOS.

I have a few minor complaints about the board. Firstly, the bundled sound card (a riser card rather than the standard onboard chip) is shit. I tried it out before buying an X-Fi to replace it, but don't even bother, the sound quality is pisch and it gets a shocking level of hum, leave this in the box and use a proper card instead. Secondly, the heatpipe arrangement around the CPU socket makes it somewhat difficult to fit a large aftermarket heatsink, but the cooling it achieves for the board is arguably worth it. Thirdly the single IDE slot is rather badly positioned right next to the 24pin ATX power in connection. The only real problem I got with the board was that the IDE wouldn't recognise any drives I connected to it - whether this was a faulty cable or a faulty slot on the board I don't know, as I decided just to ditch IDE entirely and use SATA for all 5 drives.

Overall, my score for the board has to be split. If you factor price into the equation, I can't legitimately give this more than about 7/10, as it really is pretty expensive. However if you ignore the price, the boards features and the wonderful BIOS bring this as close to a 10/10 as you can get. I guess you can decide for yourself whether you can justify spending £200 on a mobo.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/MB-208-AS_400.jpg

Next up, the CPU, an Intel Core2Duo E6600 @ 2.4Ghz. Not much to say here, it's a CPU, it's easily installed into the socket and it works. I'm highly impressed by the machine's ability to multi-task under windows (you really can take the piss with the number of open applications and it won't even flinch). I thoroughly recommend any of the C2D range, pick the fastest chip you can afford and enjoy!

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/CP-128-IN_400.jpg

And so we come to the heatsink, a ThermalRight Ultra 120 eXtreme. I've lost count of the number of times I've said this now, but nonetheless, I shall reiterate - This thing is a BITCH to fit. The instructions are somewhat vague, and the setup is relatively complicated - you have a backplate that sits behind the motherboard. You then have the main heatsink which sits on top of the CPU. You have a cross-shaped bar which goes through the heatpipes of the main piece and attaches through holes in the motherboard to the backplate. This attachment is achieved through the use of 4 spring-loaded screws, which is where the fun starts - you have to push down on them pretty damn hard to get them to actually go into the screw holes. To further complicate matters, the heatsink needs a 120mm fan attached to it, which is achieved by hooking it on with two bits of wire. All in all this took my about 20 mins to fit, and I had to take the mobo out of the case to manage it.

So, the big question, was it worth it? I have to say yes - this thing cools like nothing else (except maybe the Tuniq Tower 120). My C2D is running at it's factory clock of 2.4Ghz, and the cores idle at 30 degrees. That's barely above room temperature, and it's also cooler than the mobo which runs at more like 40. On full load, neither core is in excess of 43 degrees or so. Being as the C2Ds will run happily at 60 or so (probs even higher) this heatsink should allow for a pretty meaty overclock without endangering the stability of your system in the slightest. Verdict - 9/10 - hassle, but worth it.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/HS-039-TR_400.jpg

When choosing RAM for this system Sid recommended that I go for the Geil DDR2 800Mhz PC6400 Ultra Low Latency 2x1Gb Kit. Hats off to you Sid, this stuff is great! The 2Gb kit cost me just over £50, a ludicrously low price considering what the likes of Crucial charge for similar kits. It comes with a lifetime guarantee, and it also comes with a helpful piece of card indicating the optimal 4-4-4-12-2T timings and the optimal voltage for the chips. I've got them running at said timings in a dual channel configuration and I couldn't be happier - if I ever feel the need to step the machine up to 4Gb I'm gonna plump for another kit exactly the same. 10/10, Fantastic.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/MY-058-GL_400.jpg

As in any system, the graphics are worth splurging on, and being as my budget was pretty high anyway I spent £270 on a BFGTech GeForce 8800 GTS OC2 640MB. The card is no trouble at all to install and pisses all over anything I've had the chance to throw at it yet - the source video test comes close to 300fps with everything maxed out when running at 1280x1024, and even in widescreen 1680x1050 never dips below 100fps. This card should be able to handle anything you can throw at it for now, and while I don't know if the DX10 performance is any good, I'm reasonably confident that the card should last a good wee while. Probably not the best value for money, so I'll give this 8/10.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/GX-043-BG_400.jpg

As mentioned earlier, the bundled sound that came with the Mobo was a pile of shit. So I replaced it with a Creative SoundBlaster Xtreme X-Fi: Gamer Edition. This is slightly off the top wack X-FI model, the only discernable difference being that it lacks the 64MB XRAM present on the more expensive models. It's also about £40 cheaper, and the XRAM isn't good for much except ber high quality sound in a handful of games. I've got the card hooked up to a pair of Gale 40W speakers via a Cambridge Audio Azur 340A SE amplifier, and the sound quality both for games and music is absolutely impeccable. I can't fault this card or the software that comes with it in the slightest, if you've got a good set of speakers or headphones I thoroughly recommend the X-FI range. The card is also half size, so while you have to supply your own half size bracket it is compatible with the smaller cases. 10/10 for this.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/SC-045-CL_400.jpg

I'm not gonna go into any detail about the drives I've used - I slapped 2 500Gb Western Digital SATA HDDs in, which I'm very happy with, along with a Liteon DVD-RW DL (a steal at £30 inc Nero) and a Samsung SATA DVD-ROM (again a steal at £10). So yeah, pics will be up when I can be bothered to take some, until then throw any questions my way and I'll do my best to answer them.

YegaDoyai
16th August 2007, 22:32
Nice, cheers. 20minutes to fit an aftermarket HSF is pretty much the standard. If that included prefitting (dryfit), testfit, clean and mounting.

Hex
16th August 2007, 22:34
Well I probs spent 10 mins or so getting all the components out, looking at the instructions, working out what angle to place it etc, then I put on the arctic silver and spent a good 10 mins struggling with the bloody screws!

YegaDoyai
17th August 2007, 00:45
So, no dryfit, testfit stage? How do you know you have an optimal AS coverage?

Hex
17th August 2007, 09:18
Well, technically I don't, but you can't argue with the results - the temps I'm getting suggest to me that nothing is wrong with the way I fitted that heatsink!

YegaDoyai
17th August 2007, 23:07
I don't wish to be a scare monger but I have hear horror stories of edges of cores going well beyond the measured temperature. Remember that sensor is only one part of the core, temperature differences across the core do exist. Personaly I always do a test run to see how far the AS spreads before finall fitting. With my Zalman I did 3 fittings using different arrangements, before settling with the "one tiny dot in middle" - not reccomended for the increased size of C2D cores as I understand.

Sid
17th August 2007, 23:12
My old Thunderbird 1900+ ran strong for 3 years with no thermal paste at all. It's still going strong 5-6 years on and those babies get hot! I think you're doing quite well if you've got paste on there and it's not too thick nevermind "dryfit" and "testfit", whatever those are. My technique is to find an old credit card and smear the crap around all over the bottom of the heatsink until it's a really thin layer, then I slap on that bad boy and fire it up.

YegaDoyai
17th August 2007, 23:18
Sid: not known for his attention to detail. :)

Strings
17th August 2007, 23:43
My old Thunderbird 1900+ ran strong for 3 years with no thermal paste at all. It's still going strong 5-6 years on and those babies get hot! I think you're doing quite well if you've got paste on there and it's not too thick nevermind "dryfit" and "testfit", whatever those are. My technique is to find an old credit card and smear the crap around all over the bottom of the heatsink until it's a really thin layer, then I slap on that bad boy and fire it up.

That's supposed to be one of the few worst things you can do when applying thermal paste. Hope it was at least cheap stuff.

Sid
17th August 2007, 23:46
That's supposed to be one of the few worst things you can do when applying thermal paste. Hope it was at least cheap stuff.
Why's it bad, lol? I've never had any problems otherwise I'd probably do things differently. :mrgreen: Roll on the next CPU!

Strings
17th August 2007, 23:55
If you put too much on, i.e just smeared it over it, the heatsink and the CPU could not make very good contact due to the thickness of the thermal paste.

Due to this thickness and it's natural heat conductivity, yhis can cause (and has caused) major overheating with the CPU.

The only way round that fact I suppose is if it was really really shit thermal paste.

Sid
18th August 2007, 00:09
If you put too much on, i.e just smeared it over it, the heatsink and the CPU could not make very good contact due to the thickness of the thermal paste.

smear the crap around all over the bottom of the heatsink until it's a really thin layer

:mrgreen:

YegaDoyai
18th August 2007, 02:44
And no Strings, shit thermal paste would not 'save' you in this instance. Shit thermal paste has a lower heat transfer capacity and therefore you need less shit thermal paste to get similar results to decent stuff. Of course, shit thermal paste will never be as good as a well applied layer of decent stuff regardless of application.

Bluepixie
21st August 2007, 13:19
AHHHHGGGHH!!! *Holds head in hands* What are you monkeys doing!!!!??!

Listen to the man! (Yega) The only man that I would trust with this sort of job other than myself.

First. Credit cards and spreading is good for the old single cores like the XP's, Thunderbirds etc. Paste at that time was basically the stuff you use in everyday electronic heatsinks. Thick and nasty. High temperature tolerances and but not great heat transfer, hence why other compounds such as silver and gold (very high end so forget it :p) which have very good heat transfer are preferred.

Now, heat moves by convection in this case. The heat must move from the core of the chip through the casing to the surface then to the heat sink. Ideally, in a perfect world the chip would be manufactured with the sink already attached. This of course is impossible and would render the modular nature of a PC useless. For a perfect connection, the surface of the core and the heatsink would have to be perfectly level in topography and or by a perfect surface match.

This is of course nigh impossible, the solution is thermal paste. Without thermal paste you can have spaces between the two surfaces which will contain air, which has terrible heat transfer.

This is bad, so you use thermal paste to fill in the micro gaps between the surfaces to improve the heat transfer. The thinner the layer you achieve between the two surfaces the better the heat transfer. Remember that you are filling gaps between the surfaces not glueing them together!

Arctic Silver 5 (3.5W/mK) and other high quality thermal solutions (such as the Zalman ZM-STG1) with heat transfers of round about 4W/mK, which is MUCH better than air (0.025W/mK).
Copper is round about 400W/mK so as you can see, high quality thermal paste is no were near is good at conducting heat.

From the tests myself and Yega have performed we have seen that the small dot of paste in the centre of the chip is sufficient to cover the surface. Application of paste to the whole of a C2D chip is NOT required, in fact I discourage it highly. The viscosity (the resistance of a fluid to deform under shear stress) of newer paste is lower than older pastes and will spread nicely under the pressure of your shiny heatsink.

:D

Strings
21st August 2007, 16:45
So yeh... what I've said already. ^^

Sid
21st August 2007, 17:08
AHHHHGGGHH!!! *Holds head in hands* What are you monkeys doing!!!!??!

Everything you say regarding the purpose of thermal paste is entirely fact and there's no disputing any of it. What I've been saying is that I don't think there's any need for "dryfit", "testfit", "small dots" etc. My credit card applied thin-layer is probably exactly the same as your "small dot" when it's squashed down.

When I was doing a C2D build last week for a mate, Intel had provided the stock heatsink with a thin layer of paste already applied. I didn't bother removing this and applying any "small dot" and from what I hear, his PC is still working fine.

Meticulous attention to detail when applying thermal paste may obtain a 1ºC or other small difference in temp and may be worth it if you care about that, but there aren't going to be any PCs that are having any problems because of not showing that amount of care.

While Hex has bought many overclocking-orientated components (Striker Extreme, PC6400 RAM etc.), I very much doubt that he's going to be pushing his system to the limits and I very much doubt that he's going to be caring about that 1ºC.

I stand by my credit card. Or better still, a PauseGaming membership card, for the ultimate spread.

Muppet
21st August 2007, 17:37
I stand by my credit card. Or better still, a PauseGaming membership card, for the ultimate spread.

Exactly what i done when applying thermal paste. Got an E6300 @ 3ghz in the mid 30's doing that.

Bluepixie
21st August 2007, 18:39
Admittedly theory and practice seldom match. I just prefer to do it properly, but that's just me I guess. *shrugs*

Hex
21st August 2007, 20:12
While Hex has bought many overclocking-orientated components (Striker Extreme, PC6400 RAM etc.), I very much doubt that he's going to be pushing his system to the limits and I very much doubt that he's going to be caring about that 1ºC.

Exactly what i done when applying thermal paste. Got an E6300 @ 3ghz in the mid 30's doing that.

You are correct Sid! I intend at some point to push my E6600 from 2.4Ghz to 3Ghz, which I know for a fact my ridiculous heatsink will be *more* than capable of handling. A certain amount of care is required, but dryfit/testfit/real fit is frankly going too far unless you intend to be breaking OC records (or at least performing a relatively pisstake OC). If I was attempting to clock a 1Ghz Athlon XP to 3Ghz then this sort of thing would be necessary - as I'm intending to attempt a very moderate OC on a C2D it's really not necessary at all.

I think overall the lesson to be learnt is moderation - if you don't take a moderate amount of care when building a PC, it will go badly for you. However my time is precious, and the rig took long enough to build without getting all anal retentive and overly meticulous!

YegaDoyai
21st August 2007, 21:44
Admittedly theory and practice seldom match. I just prefer to do it properly, but that's just me I guess. *shrugs*

As you well know Niall, I appreciate things done properly too.

There are other benefits to the dot method. The surface of the card you use to spread is unlikely to be even. Even at the visual scale you can probably discern imperfections. These imperfections will trap air and could cause problems. Using the dot method the spreading of the dot evacuates the air in the gap and hence is a (marginally) better solution. Peace of mind and knowledge of a job well done are worth immense amounts when your rig is your pride and joy.

When they get a liquid diamond solution we'll be laughing.

LastChanceHotel
21st August 2007, 23:32
Hehehe, I just put a little dollop on the CPU and cranked that SI-120 down on top of it.

1 degree difference compared to the previous method of meticulous spreading with credit card, and cleaning with rubbing alcohol, and....

I shall be continuing the fine tradition of 'follow the Artic Silver instructions' (small dollop) in the future.