Deus Ex 3

[YegaDoyai]

http://www.eidosmontreal.com/en/games.html

I'm so confused right now.

[GigaFuzz]

Quality-o-meter:

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|=| 0 - <- expecting

[YegaDoyai]

totaly

[GigaFuzz]

I thought DX:IW was a decent game in its own right, but was such a letdown compared to the first. Looking at the way games are being made these days, I don't expect this to be anything like the first either. They just don't make them like that any more.

Who knows, maybe they'll surprise us?

[YegaDoyai]

I quite liked IW aswell, it wasn't really Deus Ex 2, but it was pretty good in it's own right. I just don't want to see the name dragged through any more pish, next they'll tell me they are doing a system shock 3 or sequel to SkyNET.

[Bluepixie]

Never played IW, time constraints as well as not having played Deus Ex when it came out, might get round to playing it one day. Thing for me is that neither Warren Spector nor Harvey Smith are involved with the project any more. I would hope for something more but I agree, and expect another IW, Thief: Deadly Shadows. Looks little Edios don't have any new ideas and are milking what could have been a fine franchise.

[YegaDoyai]

OI, get this the hell out of the shooter category right the fuck now!

[GigaFuzz]

The trouble is, I think the original Deus Ex was a fluke. I'm not sure if anyone could make a new game like it, without just recreating it all in a new engine, which I've seen people suggestion on another forum. :)

Would you buy Deus Ex redone in a modern engine (I would say UE3, but Mass Effect's texture pop-in is appalling)?

[YegaDoyai]

Yeah, yeah I would. :(

[Sideshow]

Mass Effect = on 360

[YegaDoyai]

If they took the original design documents from the golden era of gaming and just did what they set out to do, we could relive the last 10 years of gaming as it should have been. All those flawed classics become shiny beacons of gaming excellence. Of course what is more likely is they'll completely rework the story so rather than politics and intrigue you are fighting for energy efficiency and saving polar bears.

[Bluepixie]

OI, get this the hell out of the shooter category right the fuck now!

cyberpunk-themed first-person shooter/computer role-playing game?

Maybe just RPG?

[GigaFuzz]

Mass Effect = on 360

I'm not sure if this was a reply to my post, but I know Mass Effect is on 360 (I own it), but it has the same problems as other UE3 engine games (texture pop-in), some of which are on PC. So my liking for the UE3 engine has decreased considerably recently.

[neogramps]

mmm - i've seen pop-in in crysis too just after level loads

[GigaFuzz]

mmm - i've seen pop-in in crysis too just after level loads

Not played Crysis beyond the demo, but I hope it's not as bad as ME's ~20 seconds for full textures....

[LastChanceHotel]

I like texture pop-in. It reminds me that games are actually coded properly (instead of just fucking freezing between areas or after loading, it just looks a little crappy for a bit). It also reminds me that I need to upgrade in a gentle manner...

I also nearly dropped what I was doing when I read this thread title: but yes, no Deus Ex 1 type game is going to be made, as it simply doesn't appeal to the majority of <18yo gamers. Who wants to save polar bears when you can be bringing the world to its knees?

[Fyndir]

One day I'll become super-rich.

Then I'll fund a remake of Deus Ex in a really nice shiny engine, and I'll make sure it's good by slapping people upside the head when they do it wrong.

[Bluepixie]

Maybe ask them if they need your services. I can see your advertisement:


Coders on /.? Art boys spending too long in the coffee room? Game testers still playing TF2?

Now Introducing,
Troll Motivation!

Have your very own Troll on site to keep your work force 100% efficient.

Look out below! TROLL SMASH!

[YegaDoyai]

I'd support that cause.

[GigaFuzz]

Reminds me of Terry Tate.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94

And for those who don't know, he also plays Cole in Gears of War. Can't stop the train baby!

[neogramps]

Triple-T FTW!

[Octavion]

I remember when Kenny first showed me that I work. I managed to piss off the security guard by laughing so loud.

[Bluepixie]

Current buzz from PC Zone summarised here:

PC Zone 200th issue Deus Ex 3, front cover (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546&site=cvg) - Anybody subscribe?!? Can't get it until next Thursday they say.

Basic plot outline:

You’re cast as average joe Adam Jensen, who works as a private security officer at a technology lab specialising in biomechanical augmentations, a forerunner to the sort of nanotechnology shown in the original Deus Ex. One day the path of his life is unexpectedly altered as a team of black ops commandos break into his company’s HQ, and using a security plan from Jensen’s own hand, a mass slaughter ensues and the conspiracy begins.

Augmentations have been bumped up and sound fantastic. 20 have been promised for the final game, ranging from 'bungee jump' tentacles that shoot from your back and anchor to a wall when you jump off a building, and the ability to punch through walls to grab enemies in neighbouring rooms.

Quite excited about seeing more of the biomechanical augmentations in their heyday. :)

[To0]

4chan, predictably, had scans available, other sites have condensed the reviews. I'll not spoil it here but they made it into Halo with augs. Oh no, wait, that was spoiling it right?

Epic Fail.

[Bluepixie]

Pixie be sad. :(

[Exuus]

Oh god, why?

There is no way this can end well.

- It looks like Doom 3, then somehow will switch back to the modern day with augs within 20 years to fit within the timeline.
- Skills have been "streamlined"
- Auto. Fucking. Health. Regeneration.


Remember, they only made one Deus Ex game. DEUS EX 2 AND 3 DO NOT EXIST. AAAAAA

[To0]

- Auto. Fucking. Health. Regeneration.


QFT

[Sideshow]

If auto health regen means a similar mechanic to halo or cod4 then that's a good thing.

[To0]

It does mean that and I disagree, it just means shit players can duck for cover and regen. This fix goes hand in hand with gay AI that can shoot you while you can't even see them as a cover up so you dont get WTFLOLLERPWND by an unseen target. It is not the fix that game warrants.

[Octavion]

Another interesting article (http://sexyvideogameland.blogspot.com/2008/10/dysfunctional-family-circle.html) about bad quoting and people jumping to conclusions like a lot of this thread.

[Bluepixie]

After reading that article, I can see the point of you drawing our attention to it. However, what I don't understand is what you're trying to say. The quotes from the Deus Ex 3 devlopment team including the one from Jean-Francois Dugas were nothing short of shocking for people that enjoyed the original Deus Ex, including myself. It's a bit like saying:

Yeah, Thief was a bit flawed because it was really dark and it punished you for getting into combat.

..........

Deus Ex has already been attempted in the action mould as Project Snowblind, (originally Deus Ex: Clan Wars) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Snowblind) and it was SOOOOO FUCKING BAD, Eidos decided to remove the Deus Ex branding and give it it's own universe.

The reason that "us" the fans of Deus Ex have got our knickers in a twist is because nothing has compared to the experience of Deus Ex. Even though the majority of us know that hoping anything could be developed in the foreseeable future to exceed/equal that of Deus Ex, is lunacy, we still hope. Deus Ex 3 is again in the hands of consoles, and is again, to be butchered.
Deus Ex was not an amazing game because you role-played an nano-aug government agent that could take on armies single handed, it was because you had the choice (well, for most of the game) not to be. The game's main strength resides in the remarkable detailed game world, rich atmosphere, realistic characters and intricately written story.

Sure it was a bad quote and we may be barking up the wrong tree, but nothing has suggested otherwise. I'm still crossing my fingers, but I think I'll just play Deus Ex again instead.

[Octavion]

Deus Ex 3 is again in the hands of consoles, and is again, to be butchered.

This is the jumping to conclusions bit that I was talking about. Here's a quote from the full interview.

At this point we don’t know exactly which platforms we’re going to be out on. The PC, we’ll be there for sure. But for us, console-isation isn’t about dumbing down features. If we’re to go console we will want to keep the complexity alive. We want the menu interface and controller to feel simple without risking any of their potential.

I think it's a shame that people think that just because a game is on a console that it will instantly be "dumbed down"; see Dead Space, Knights of the Old Republic, the Final Fantasy Series or the Armoured Core series. Also, many games that are on console use control systems that are superior to their PC counterparts. I find that a game pad provides a more tactile, analogue sensation that aids in game immersion. Sure the mouse is by far a better tool for aiming but the old WASD keys provide a distinct barrier to the game world because of their ("I'm pushing a button to move in a stuttery manner") digital status.


Deus Ex was not an amazing game because you role-played an nano-aug government agent that could take on armies single handed, it was because you had the choice (well, for most of the game) not to be. The game's main strength resides in the remarkable detailed game world, rich atmosphere, realistic characters and intricately written story.

Sure it was a bad quote and we may be barking up the wrong tree, but nothing has suggested otherwise. I'm still crossing my fingers, but I think I'll just play Deus Ex again instead.

See this (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/) post over at RPS. It's linked to in the previous article I posted.

[To0]

Lewis, at what point exactly did you have a lobotomy? It's a shame because you used to be such a bright chap.

Since when did pushing a small stick feel like walking? Pushing harder feel like running? Mashing X to jump feel more fluid than mashing space. The PC's superior aim and limited directional control actually focuses more on paced gameplay and accurate shooting as the gameplay element as you use a modifier for speed (typically shift) while the console games go instead for dexterity in movement like beam balancing. Guess which I prefer? I fucking hate platformers! Because of this, any game that focuses on consoles as being a targeted audience it will diminish the element of paced gameplay and increase the dexterity puzzles. UI design has, for a long time, been awful on the PC. But it was awful because there was so much to take in and do it was hard for newcomers to get into. Consoles remove that, stick to some very good UI design rules typically never giving you more options that you can deal with (7 +-5) and invariably as a side affect remove a level of depth that was inherent in the expert user systems of the old PC games. It's like trying to argue that Windows is better than Unix command prompt. Granted it is easier and nicer but the Unix prompt is far, far speedier for most OS tasks for an experience operator. Noone, thusfar, has taken the time to create the simple UI and the expert user system so we just get the one that takes the least time and effort to play with - note that it invariably takes far MORE time to create this element meaning more resources are taken away from other areas or resources have to increase.

Some folk hate it, some folk love it but resource management in a shooter is something that all Deus Ex fans enjoyed. Choosing what you could take with you and what you had to leave behind. No game on a console that I've heard about, played or dreamed of has ever had a good inventory because the control system is not as adept at that sort of mechanic as the mouse. As a design consideration it will be less than insipred in order that new console users are not overwhelmed.

Why am I sure it is going to come out for consoles? Look at the screenshots. Do you think that is next level tech or current tech? Looks like current tech to me so is aimed at existing hardware, PC only would look to next gen as the baseline.

[Bluepixie]

This is the jumping to conclusions bit that I was talking about.See this (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/) post over at RPS. It's linked to in the previous article I posted.

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm gathering as much information as possible, then drawing an opinion. I read that article days ago, and I still feel Edge messed up by being so sensationalist, not a big reader of the mag and I certainly wouldn't have come across it if it weren't for the Angry Internet Men making a fuss. The quote itself in context is still worrying as I said before and the "reassurances" made by Community-chap René Valen were not enthusing:


The overall feeling I get is that people are worried DX3 is more IW/GoW than DX1. This is is not true. DX3 is more DX1 than anything. I’ve said this before but it bears repeating.

First off, yes some things are changing:

-Auto health regen (although we haven’t been told exactly how this will work…)
-Stealth to line-of-sight and sound instead of darkness
-Contextual third person elements

Maybe even just a slight change to one of these is a deal-breaker for you and I can’t change that so I’m sorry. However, if you think DX1 is much more than these three elements, then you will be happy:

-Different ways to solve any objective depending on your play style (social, hacking, stealth, or action)
-Customization of your character (augmentations) and weapons
-Deep story with a strong consipracy
-Lots of social interaction with numerous characters
-Consequences to your actions that affect things down the line
-A near future (Cyberpunk) setting
-Open levels with limited load times (think DX1 not IW)
-Random explorable elements with earned experience points
-Global travel
-More stuff I’m forgetting


There is a good discussion in the RPS article about the merits of auto-health to standard power-up mechanics, but ultimately in DX1 health/energy/ammo management was a key aspect of the game. I feel that this design decision is to make the game more accessible and put more focus onto combat and set pieces. Combat in DX1 was not anywere near the greatest aspect of the game (it was the UT engine after all) so it really came down to the other elements of the game. I understand that they are saying a lot of these element will remain, but this is also the case in IW.


I think it's a shame that people think that just because a game is on a console that it will instantly be "dumbed down"; see Dead Space, Knights of the Old Republic, the Final Fantasy Series or the Armoured Core series. Also, many games that are on console use control systems that are superior to their PC counterparts. I find that a game pad provides a more tactile, analogue sensation that aids in game immersion. Sure the mouse is by far a better tool for aiming but the old WASD keys provide a distinct barrier to the game world because of their ("I'm pushing a button to move in a stuttery manner") digital status.


Both control systems are excellent but both suit particular game styles. I've never felt that WASD + a mouse was a stumbling block of immersion to an FPS for example, but it can be a hindrance for some 3rd person games. The inventory and item management aspects of DX1 were a lot of fun. As Peter has already pointed out, inventory systems on console games are often, unlimited pockets, no weight restrictions, items taking "a slot" and so on. I can't say anything for Dead Space but KOTOR and FFVII both had the good old unlimited inventory. Bioshock and Invisible War are prime example of the PC to console transition:

SS2, Deus Ex - Items depending on size take up slots in your inventory (pistol takes 2, rocket launcher takes like 8 ). You have a maximum weight load which also has to be taken into consideration. Each weapons needs specific ammo.

Bioshock, Invisible War - Items all take up "slots", (i.e. pistol takes the same amount of space as a rocket launcher), no weight restrictions, and specifically for IW all weapons use the same ammo pool.

[Hex]

Tbh Deus Ex was massively overrated in the first place

[To0]

Tbh Hex eats poop for breakfast.

[Fyndir]

I have witnessed him doing so, many times.

To0 speaks truth.

[Bluepixie]

Oh my word Hex, I just got back from the pub only to find you acting like a total tit, not seen that in ages! If you're gonna say things like that after a decent, logical discussion and even think about shirking off the grand title of shit stirrer, have the decency to explain yourself. :)

[Hex]

I must congratulate you here Pixie, I felt sure you'd take the bait ;-)

[DAve]

Tbh Hex eats poop for breakfast.

FLAME WAR!!!!!

it's like the cold war, but with a tad more ready-brek.

[GigaFuzz]

Holy thread resurrection!

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/11/25/deus-ex-3-is-eidos-and-square-enix-joint-ef/1

I'm taking this with a pinch (actually, a lot) of salt, but could DE3 actually be a PC exclusive?
It has been confirmed that the game is a cyberpunk prequel to the first game though and that it won't be getting a console release due to the complexity of the game.

I have my doubts, and this is probably something to do with a mis-quote, but maybe it bodes well.

Also:
Also, Alexander Brandon is back on the music for Deus Ex 3 according to IMDB, which is a recipe for absolute win. His work on soundtracks for Deus Ex, Unreal, UT, jazz Jackrabbit, etc was just fantastic.
:D

[saladin]

I feel this doesn't.

Deus Ex to have spiky hair, efeminite heroes. (http://www.next-gen.biz/news/square-enix-providing-deus-ex-3-cinematics)

[GigaFuzz]

I feel this doesn't.

Deus Ex to have spiky hair, efeminite heroes. (http://www.next-gen.biz/news/square-enix-providing-deus-ex-3-cinematics)

A dev came out and stated that they're only working on the trailer, and that all game cutscenes will be in-engine.

It is possible that could change, though.

[Bluepixie]

Alex is back! Awesome! Ok, I'm now officially excited.

[GigaFuzz]

Alex is back! Awesome! Ok, I'm now officially excited.

I've been listening to the Deus Ex soundtrack for the last week. :D A few of the tracks sound very similar to some of the music from Mass Effect.

[Bluepixie]

Yeah, I suspect that Jack Wall listened to the Deus Ex soundtrack as well. :) Just listening to it just now. If you listen to UNATCO (1.32) the bass line is VERY like the one in main theme of Mass Effect and for the ship. Still, there are some very Vangelis moments in there too. :)

[DAve]

http://www.lolsauce.com/RandomBS/Deus%20Ex.jpeg

[Bluepixie]

Doing it right now!!!!!!!1111!!!!!

[To0]

bought it on steam so it is always installed!

[Fyndir]

I would install it, but at this point I can't run it.

lmao

[To0]

The trouble is, I think the original Deus Ex was a fluke. I'm not sure if anyone could make a new game like it, without just recreating it all in a new engine, which I've seen people suggestion on another forum. :)

Would you buy Deus Ex redone in a modern engine (I would say UE3, but Mass Effect's texture pop-in is appalling)?

Ok so I have once again been reading things that I shouldn't and for all of you I have a solution for texture pop in.

Turn off texture streaming. I originaly thought that it would be intrinsic to the data management stream but it turns out that the current cross platform engines are more than capable of being forced into a "load once" scheme for those of us with man size PCs rather than girly consoles.

so crisis:

e_stream - There are several commands starting with e_stream. If set to 1, they enable the streaming system for their relevant components. It is generally not recommended that this be altered unless you're running on a low-memory system, since streaming can reduce memory usage but may increase stuttering (system). Again, see the r_TexturesStreaming setting if you just want to enable/disable texture streaming.

unreal 3:

bUseTextureStreaming=True

The Unreal Engine 3 uses a streaming approach to loading up textures. Streaming is actually designed more for loading times on consoles. However if this option is set to False, textures won't be streamed in at all, and instead most of the environment will be black due to a lack of textures. The only reason to use this would be for troubleshooting a suspected texture-related issue. Note that the UseStreaming=True variable found further above this setting seems to have no impact on the streaming system if set to False.

bUseBackgroundLevelStreaming=True

This setting is related to the streaming textures in UT3, and appears to control whether streaming occurs in the background or not. In my testing setting this to False made no significant difference to the streaming behavior or stuttering.

It does not appear to force off in U3 so I'll go back and look again. What I might do is put a post in the Hardware/Software section that lists specific options.

links to original articles below:
http://www.tweakguides.com/Crysis_10.html
http://www.tweakguides.com/UT3_7.html

[DAve]

It still looks very pretty (http://deusex.com/coming_soon.php). No word on release date, I hear it's after GT5, but before DNF.

[To0]

This looks interesting, I wonder if we will see the inception of Herman and Navarre. But it looks like another case of the prequel having cooler stuff than the original which is always an issue with scifi.

[To0]

Tell me, am I alone in thinking that it just "works" better with Japanese voice over.

http://kotaku.com/5640498/deus-ex-learns-japanese-gets-trigger+happy

Who's for asking for English subs and Japanese VO?

[Gunder]

Nope. Thought it worked better in English.

[To0]

It still looks very pretty (http://deusex.com/coming_soon.php). No word on release date, I hear it's after GT5, but before DNF.

DAve the truthsayer. Feb 11th, question is what platform are you going to play this generic cover based shoot-a-thon?

[Bluepixie]

PC - high-res textures all the way

[GigaFuzz]

PC - high-res textures all the way

You mean 'slightly higher res textures than the console ones that some enterprising modder will half-replace 3 years later with a high-res texture pack that actually looks a bit shit'?

Damn I'm bitter. :(

[Bluepixie]

La Li Lu Le Lo?

No not that kind of conspiracy, check it out. Conspiracy Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9T6oi7j7D0&feature=player_embedded)

Actually really excited about this now!

[To0]

It still looks very pretty (http://deusex.com/coming_soon.php). No word on release date, I hear it's after GT5, but before DNF.

Did you ever think you'd get to say that a game came out AFTER DNF? I feel like it is a landmark. Like post Doom FPS games, post Quake, post Half Life. We are now post DNF... interesting times.

[Sideshow]

I feel like it is a landmark. Like post Doom FPS games, post Quake, post Half Life. We are now post DNF... interesting times.

No. Just... No.