Christmas is Coming..

[Fyndir]

As is my Birthday (February) and I need advice. =D

Help me out here, I've already begun the process of trying to blag a BFG GeForce 7800 GT OC 256MB (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/7800__Series.html) as a present and I'm also looking at RAM and some form of extra cooling for my little PC.

Cooling is taking precedence over RAM since I already have 1GB of RAM, although upgrading my two 512 sticks to two 1024 sticks would be nice.

However, I'm not sure what kind of cooling would be best, I want to keep my computer running nice and cool without spending TOO much, I'm the same with the RAM, I'm not certain what brand would be best.

So I ask you guys, because you generally know more than me and have more experience than me with this stuff.

[Sid]

If you post exactly what components you have already I'll be able to help you out. Why do you want to spend money on extra cooling? Are you having stability issues? Do you overclock?

[bluntpencil2001]

You can't go wrong with selection boxes, they're great at christmas time!

[Fyndir]

If you post exactly what components you have already I'll be able to help you out. Why do you want to spend money on extra cooling? Are you having stability issues? Do you overclock?

BIOS: Phoenix - Award BIOS v6.00PG
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3400+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.2GHz
Memory: 1022MB RAM
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 6200 TurboCache(TM)
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 6200 TurboCache(TM)

pulled directly from a DXDiag file

That should be most of what you need to know, as for why I want cooling, the grapics card I'm looking at comes overclocked and I generally like to keep my room hot so I'd like to get something in there (even if it's just a better/extra heatsink or better fan) just to help keep the box running cooler than it does now (averaging between 30 and 40 Celcius according to my BIOS).

[iwan_canobi]

Get yourself some 12cm case fans if ur case can hold them, they push a hell of a lot more air through! I have the zalman super flower heatsink for my cpu, its great, keeps my 3.2ghz P4 at around 40 degrees, which in my room (also hot!) is an acheivement! With an Athlon that runs much cooler than the P4's it'd be pretty good! U can also get zalman heatsinks for the graphics card, but i think the one BFG supply is pretty good anyways. Another thing to try would be a PCI exhaust blower, just slots in a free PCI slot on ur case and blows air out, works best under ur graphics card to get rid of hot air produced by it! A slightly more extreme method would be to make some vent holes in the top of ur case, as we all know hot air rises, so it can escape rather than building up! I went through a phase of wantin everything cooler, but the best money i spent was 60 pound on a new coolermaster case, with 12cm fans front and rear, and a neat duct that goes from the side of the case over the CPU heatsink, it has dropped my case temp by about 8 degrees and my CPU temp by 11! (used to run at bout 50ish in my old case!) But those are a few ideas to try!

[Sid]

The stock cooling on your CPU and pre-overclocked GFX card will be sufficient. Assuming your case has decent airflow, it'll all be fine.

I would not recommend adding any extra sticks of RAM. Performance will suffer by running 3 or 4 DIMMS rather than the standard 2. Unless you want to and can afford to replace both of your 512MB sticks with 1GB sticks, I wouldn't bother. The performance game would be okay, but probably not worth the money.

If I were you I'd do the graphics card upgrade and then consider your machine complete for at least 18 months of use.

[YegaDoyai]

i agree with most of what sid says, however you should consider that the CPU will limit your graphics card if you do get a 7800, just ask strings.

Cooling wise Strings is unsure of the best 7800 cooler out there as yet but he is on the market and he has a HUGE case so consider that you may need to improve your cooling if you do get one. Me, Pixie, Fogger and everyone else that has one loves the Zalman. However what they do not tell you is that they are only great when you replace the stock fan. It turns out that Papyst and Panaflow do better fans (quieter and better air throughput) than Zalman. My 120mm cooler has recently started making noises so I'll be looking to mod it in the near future. Other than that the .9kg of copper keeps my machine below 40 even under extreme OC (1.6Gz to 2.5Gz) Although my case helps. If you are not so bothered about the critical 25dB mark then you could look to the fatality editions which run faster and look sweet as fuck.

2GB of ram is nice for BF2 but recent benchies have shown that that is the ONLY game to improve significantly and even then it only eliminates SOME stuttering. Unitl you go dual core stick with 1GB.

Wrapping up, consider that by Feb the new ATI R535(?) will be out - will be quicker than all current cards and Nvidia will be bringing out the 7800 Ultra to match it. I'd look to 256MB Vram as a minimum now and certainly next year I'll look for 512Mb cards as the higher mainstream. Do you have the option for SLI? You didn't say what MOBO you have so I'm guessing not. Anyway don't start making your list till Jan as you'lll have a better idea of pricing/availability

[Fyndir]

If I were you I'd do the graphics card upgrade and then consider your machine complete for at least 18 months of use.

but CHRISTMAS. =P


I get things for FREE. =P

I was thinking of replacing at least one of the sticks (bringing me up to 1.5GB) for now since I'm fairly sure they're pretty shitty as RAM goes.


As for case, mine is fairly small with quite a few grilles in the side for some ventilation, I don't think I'll hit any real problems but I'm thinking from a better safe than sorry perspective.

I suppose I could slice up the top of it a bit to allow better heat escape from there?

[gor]

Sid posting here from g0r's house btw...

2GB of ram is nice for BF2 but recent benchies have shown that that is the ONLY game to improve significantly and even then it only eliminates SOME stuttering. Unitl you go dual core stick with 1GB.

That's because BF2 is pretty much the most recent game. Most of the games that will now come out in the year will see benefits from 2GB of RAM. As for dual-core - we won't see any games supporting that for some time, which is why I decided to buy a San Diego CPU rather than an X2. The San Diego range are currently the best for gaming featuring a 1MB cache and a clock speed in the range of 2.2 - 2.8GHz compared to the top CPU in the X2 range - the 4800+, which only runs at 2.4GHz.

Also, I very much doubt that the 7800GT will be limited any by an athlon 64 3400+. Yeah, the ATI X850s will be fully released and in the shops by the end of November so that will definitely push down the prices of the 7800 range, although they are already cheap as they are.

I've never been particularly impressed by the Zalman range for sheer performance. Alpha used to make the best sinks back in the day and at the moment, Thermalright's offerings look to be the best. Personally, I aim to have my new system watercooled in the next year.

[iwan_canobi]

If you could afford the new ATI card (x1800xt) then i'd go for it, but its a lot more expensive, the xt version looks as though its coming in at about £450! There is an xl version though, not sure of the price for that though! What resolution do u run ur games at? Imho if, like me, u have a tft that has a max resolution of 1280x1024, buying a top of the range card isnt a necessity, i have an x800xt pe and it spanks any game i throw at it, including battlefield and F.E.A.R, i run all of the settings on max with 4xAA and 8xAF, and its fine! So unless u have a crt and use higher resolutions then i think the BFG ur looking at will be more than powerful enough for a good year at least! Just my opinion though! The x1800xt is pretty impressive though.......damn my feeble wallet.....

[YegaDoyai]

Yep, yep, and maybe.

Well yeah, but actually most games for next year will run better than BF2 on 1GB because it is recognised that the caching in BF2 is some of the worst around. But until the latencies come down for resonable priced matched pairs I doubt most folk will budge.

Sandy is my recomendation, although the new priceing on the Opterons is interesting.

Limited is a strong word what I meant was even Strings has found that his processor has held back the maximum 'potential' of his 7800 not that he got a bad frame rate because his CPU is too slow only that he could have had even more fames over the stupendous number he was getting.

I love my Zalmans and will protest to the ends of the earth that they rule. 0.18 degrees per W people! and it looks COOL. I thank you for my reasoned argument. :)

Water cooling is the next step but how to keep it quiet is holding me back.

Please note that the new M2 socket will be realsed mid to late '06 so your 939 boards will be redundant as of approx mid '07, 754 boards will be redundant by end of next year.

Anyone know of the next plans for the sempron range, when are they shifting to 939?

[Fyndir]

At LANs I run them on TFT settings like that, at home I use my big old CRT and tend to run them at 1024x768, same as my general screen resolution, so I'd rather have a nice little 256MB 7800GT powerhouse to have it all run nicely.

[YegaDoyai]

It is recommended that the latest and greatest 7800 and co graphics cards are used by folk that play 1280*1024 and above with AA and AF on, playing at 1024*768 just buy a 6800GT/Ultra and save yourself some cash.

[Fyndir]

It is recommended that the latest and greatest 7800 and co graphics cards are ased by folk that play 1280*1024 and above with AA and AF on, playing at 1024*768 just buy a 6800GT/Ultra and save yourself some cash.

But then the other geeks will mock me for my inferior card. ='(



....



:lol:

[YegaDoyai]

mock away, I have an X700 and play at 1280 with no AA and AF in the latest games but everything else gets the full treatment. By middle of next year (end of summer) I'll be buying the latest and greatest to go with Vista. Dual core etc This machine is simply a stop gap, you just have to decide where to spend your cash. When I first bought my Radeon VIVO 64Mb DDR it was the latest and greatest and cost £250. I was still using it 3 years later. Granted for the last 6 months of it's life I couldn't play demos (all had shaders of 1.4 and above) but the GPU/Mem was still capable of pushing the polys. Also consider the PPU cards and that Duke Nukem Forever will be accelerated by it out the box as will (on a marginally more serious note) the new Unreal 3 engine. That also leaves out the X-Fi which as Strings will attest is fantastic. The raptor gaming keyboard which is overpriced but sexy as hell. The new logitech g7 mouse. Or if you are Sideshow the G5 (wired) version. And a brand spanking new monitor see Strings (again) or Fogger.

It is folly to expect your upgrade cycle to end, only pause. Going with the latest and greatest means the biggest hurt especially if you buy just before it is moved from the top slot.

[Fyndir]

However I don't NEED the latest and greatest, hence the laughter at the end of the post.

Getting something that's amazing right now will mean it shall last for a hell of a long time, why get something that's possibly halfway through it's useful life?

[YegaDoyai]

Because by the time you buy the 7800 it WILL be half way through it's life.

[Fyndir]

Because by the time you buy the 7800 it WILL be half way through it's life.

This Christmas?

Even with the new ATI card coming out that won't make it useless, chances are it'll give me a good 3 or 4 years yet AND it's going to be relatively cheap.

[YegaDoyai]

The point is you said you were going to buy one because it is the Daddy. It is halfway through the 'Daddy' lifecycle. I never said it would be useless, just it won't be the daddy. Bring on the X1800XT 512. Hell yeah. (in crossfire, of course)

From anandtech


Internal documents from ATI reveal that X1800XT Crossfire Edition will not enter mass production until December 4th. Generally there is a four week lag between mass production and retail availability. Thus, do not expect to see X1800XT Master Cards this year. Currently, only X1800XL and X850 Pro Master Cards are available in retail channels.

[Fyndir]

The point is you said you were going to buy one because it is the Daddy. It is halfway through the 'Daddy' lifecycle. I never said it would be useless, just it won't be the daddy. Bring on the X1800XT 512. Hell yeah. (in crossfire, of course)

It's halfway being through the daddy, yeah, but it's not halfway through it's lifespan of being able to run games, it will be able to run all current games beautifully and probably last me a good few years.

I don't CARE about it being the daddy, but the point is if I buy something that's the best / Just stopped being the best then it's going to be useable for quite a while before I need to upgrade again.

[iwan_canobi]

Thats the problem with P.C hardware, everything is short lived, the way technology is developing now is scary, as soon as u buy somethin, theres something new in the pipeline that is much better, just the other day i caught myself thinking about buying an xbox 360, but then i quickly realised that my p.c will outperform it already! (i hope anyway!). But i'd agree that the 7800 will last a few years at least, its interesting to think how games can get much better than what they look like at the moment! I mean, Lost Coast looks fantastic, if games like that can get better i'd like to know how! The challenge i suppose is trying to get detail levels like that throughout a full game. But as usual, i digress!

[Fyndir]

An update.

I require assistance, overclockers decided to be cocks when my dad tried to order me the graphics card of choice ( top of the page (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/7800__Series.html) ) and some RAM of choice ( Again, top of the page (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Crucial_Ballistix.html) ) and refuse to ship it without proof that we are who we say we are (some form of bizarre fraud prevention? =/), so I checked around and it looks like I can get the RAM from Crucial themselves, but finding the card is giving me trouble.

I've already tried here (http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/), which seems to be a decent shop but doesn't stock anything BFG and has a shortage of 7800's.

Any help? -_-

[DAve]

Fax Overclockers with some passport proof / utility bill?

What kind of proof are they asking for?

[Fyndir]

Fax Overclockers with some passport proof / utility bill?

What kind of proof are they asking for?


I think they wanted us to send (postal as far as I know) a bill with our name and this address on it, but considering we're trying to get the stuff here by christmas it would take too long, probably, which is why I was trying to look for alternatives.

Oh well, if we can't think of any alternative I'll try to get my dad to sort something out with overclockers, even if the stuff is late in the end.

[Phizz]

You can't go wrong with selection boxes, they're great at christmas time!

Grrr. you stole that idea from me on tuesday!!

[YcMing]

hmm.. you cansned your proof of identity to them, by special next day deilvery which will cost you £5... then i am sure they can get it all sorted by now.


Sorry ouldn't recommend you to buy anything,s since i don't know much :P...... that's all because it takes like a 486 to run a starcraft :P

[Strings]

I cant understand why Overclockers would ask such a thing. Fairly odd I must say. I would phone them personally and argue about faxing proof of identity.

Though I still dont see why they want your identity. Why you and not every other customer that orders online from them?

[Fyndir]

I cant understand why Overclockers would ask such a thing. Fairly odd I must say. I would phone them personally and argue about faxing proof of identity.

Though I still dont see why they want your identity. Why you and not every other customer that orders online from them?


Maybe other customers aren't making such large orders?

£358.62 (not including Shipping)

I mean, the reason they gave my dad was that it was a large order, but that makes no sense since they sell some things that are over £500. =/

It might also be something about my dad's billing address and shipping address, I don't know if they're the same yet (we moved at the start of October). =/

[Strings]

Odd.

Different billing and shipping addresses are fairly common features of online ordering systems. I do it all the time when I order online stuff for my Gran.

Plus I ordered about £1000 worth of stuff Overclockers at one time.

Fecking phone them up mate, and ask them to explain in detail WHY you have to have proof of ID.

[Fyndir]

Fecking phone them up mate, and ask them to explain in detail WHY you have to have proof of ID.



Might do that tomorrow or Monday, have to talk to my dad about it and see what he thinks we should do since it's his money we're spending. =P